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<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Jim is always up for a
challenge. But his writing duties at Ars go beyond his usual
network focus. I'd reach out to him directly.<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jim.salter@arstechnica.com">jim.salter@arstechnica.com</a><br>
</font><br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/29/2020 1:50 PM, Jon Pike wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CALukJKT+2tQ+Xy5y==YwLNhQEuFsL=0Xdr4K9C1xGstJqosDyA@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="auto">Hmmm... wonder what Jim Salter's schedule book
looks like? ;-)
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I was also hoping for a recent evaluation of the
recent developments... Heck, I've been waiting for a retake
on Jim's articles on rolling your own router on Ars Technia,
using OpenWrt and it performed admirably, but I think it was
before v16! Probably more than time for a re evaluation, with
newer Cake and etc... as well as evaluating the
make-wifi-fast stuff on the AP side of things...</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Whaddya think Tim? Is Jim burnt out on routers
and wifi, or am I on to something? ;-)</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, May 28, 2020, 9:00 AM
<<a
href="mailto:make-wifi-fast-request@lists.bufferbloat.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">make-wifi-fast-request@lists.bufferbloat.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
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than "Re: Contents of Make-wifi-fast digest..."<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: REPOSTED: SmallNetBuilder Article: Does OFDMA really<br>
work? Part 2 (Bob McMahon)<br>
2. Re: REPOSTED: SmallNetBuilder Article: Does OFDMA really<br>
work? Part 2 (Tim Higgins)<br>
3. R7800 & openwrt and smallnetbuilder (Dave Taht)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
From: Bob McMahon <<a
href="mailto:bob.mcmahon@broadcom.com" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">bob.mcmahon@broadcom.com</a>><br>
To: Tim Higgins <<a href="mailto:tim@smallnetbuilder.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">tim@smallnetbuilder.com</a>><br>
Cc: Make-Wifi-fast <<a
href="mailto:make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net</a>><br>
Bcc: <br>
Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 10:16:23 -0700<br>
Subject: Re: [Make-wifi-fast] REPOSTED: SmallNetBuilder
Article: Does OFDMA really work? Part 2<br>
<div dir="ltr">I would make a small packet run too. For iperf2
use -l 40 and -b 20000pps and vary the pps number. I would
hope that OFDMA would increase this. <br>
<br>
Also, don't forget about jitter - the derivative of latency.
Some protocols care more about jitter than they do latency.
<br>
<br>
I'd look into measuring the actual latency and jitter of the
traffic vs using a ping as a proxy. This will be supported
in iperf 2.0.14 using the write (server) side clock and
--write-ack. Better though is to synchronize the clocks and
use one way trip times. While I like to synchronize the
realtime clocks to the GPS atomic clock as the reference,
using PTP and synchronizing to a common reference of any PC
oscillator may be good enough. PTP stats will give you
errors and corrections and per the corrections one can get
an idea of the error.<br>
<br>
Thanks for posting. I really don't think OFDMA is going to
affect such large latencies in a noticeable manner. I think
it will be the ultra low latencies or near zero queuing that
will matter. For data center switches this is driven mostly
by high frequency traders. For WiFi it's going to be newer
games with VR/AR. Those latencies are going to need to be
very low compared to today's use cases.<br>
<br>
my $0.02,<br>
<br>
Bob</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, May 27, 2020 at
7:37 AM Tim Higgins <<a
href="mailto:tim@smallnetbuilder.com" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">tim@smallnetbuilder.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div> <font size="-1" face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif">Tests have been redone and article is back up.<br>
===========================<br>
Hi All,<br>
<br>
This article uses the benchmark test described in Part
1 to test 6 Wi-Fi consumer routers. Results are not
impressive.<br>
<a
href="https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-features/33223-does-ofdma-really-work-part-2"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-features/33223-does-ofdma-really-work-part-2</a><br>
</font>
<div><br>
<div><font size="-1" face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif">===========<br>
Tim <br>
</font></div>
</div>
</div>
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<br>
<br>
<br>
---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
From: Tim Higgins <<a href="mailto:tim@smallnetbuilder.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">tim@smallnetbuilder.com</a>><br>
To: Bob McMahon <<a href="mailto:bob.mcmahon@broadcom.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">bob.mcmahon@broadcom.com</a>><br>
Cc: Make-Wifi-fast <<a
href="mailto:make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net</a>><br>
Bcc: <br>
Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 10:22:04 -0400<br>
Subject: Re: [Make-wifi-fast] REPOSTED: SmallNetBuilder
Article: Does OFDMA really work? Part 2<br>
<div> <font size="-1" face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Hi
Bob,<br>
<br>
Thanks for the suggestions. The iper2 suggests are for
UDP, correct?<br>
<br>
As I said in the article, I'm done hunting this snark for
now. Maybe others will take up the challenge.<br>
</font>
<div>
<div><font size="-1" face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">===========<br>
Tim <br>
</font></div>
</div>
<div>On 5/27/2020 1:16 PM, Bob McMahon wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">I would make a small packet run too. For
iperf2 use -l 40 and -b 20000pps and vary the pps
number. I would hope that OFDMA would increase this. <br>
<br>
Also, don't forget about jitter - the derivative of
latency. Some protocols care more about jitter than they
do latency. <br>
<br>
I'd look into measuring the actual latency and jitter of
the traffic vs using a ping as a proxy. This will be
supported in iperf 2.0.14 using the write (server) side
clock and --write-ack. Better though is to synchronize
the clocks and use one way trip times. While I like to
synchronize the realtime clocks to the GPS atomic clock
as the reference, using PTP and synchronizing to a
common reference of any PC oscillator may be good
enough. PTP stats will give you errors and corrections
and per the corrections one can get an idea of the
error.<br>
<br>
Thanks for posting. I really don't think OFDMA is going
to affect such large latencies in a noticeable manner. I
think it will be the ultra low latencies or near zero
queuing that will matter. For data center switches this
is driven mostly by high frequency traders. For WiFi
it's going to be newer games with VR/AR. Those latencies
are going to need to be very low compared to today's use
cases.<br>
<br>
my $0.02,<br>
<br>
Bob</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, May 27, 2020
at 7:37 AM Tim Higgins <<a
href="mailto:tim@smallnetbuilder.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">tim@smallnetbuilder.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div> <font size="-1" face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif">Tests have been redone and article is back
up.<br>
===========================<br>
Hi All,<br>
<br>
This article uses the benchmark test described in
Part 1 to test 6 Wi-Fi consumer routers. Results
are not impressive.<br>
<a
href="https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-features/33223-does-ofdma-really-work-part-2"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-features/33223-does-ofdma-really-work-part-2</a><br>
</font>
<div><br>
<div><font size="-1" face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif">===========<br>
Tim <br>
</font></div>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<br>
---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
From: Dave Taht <<a href="mailto:dave.taht@gmail.com"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">dave.taht@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Make-Wifi-fast <<a
href="mailto:make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net"
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net</a>><br>
Cc: <br>
Bcc: <br>
Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 08:28:05 -0700<br>
Subject: [Make-wifi-fast] R7800 & openwrt and
smallnetbuilder<br>
I see that the R7800 is tim's goto router. I have one in a
box... somewhere...<br>
<br>
A benchmark between the stock R7800 firmware and openwrt
19.03 on it<br>
would be nice to have. So far as I know<br>
most of the offloads are in 19.03. However, the work ongoing
on the<br>
ath10k is pretty relevant, so A to B to C<br>
would be a good shower of progress.<br>
<br>
I figure tim is burned out totally on benchmarking wifi
routers and is<br>
off restoring his karma by planting a garden or hopefully
something<br>
relaxing like that(?), but I did manage to get most of my lab<br>
reassembled over the past few weeks.<br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence
over public<br>
relations, for Mother Nature cannot be fooled" - Richard
Feynman<br>
<br>
<a href="mailto:dave@taht.net" target="_blank"
rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true">dave@taht.net</a>
<Dave Täht> CTO, TekLibre, LLC Tel: 1-831-435-0729<br>
<br>
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