[NNagain] [Starlink] FCC Upholds Denial of Starlink's RDOF Application

[David Lang]

to be very clear, I am in no way saying that anyone's (let alone saying women's) 
views are not desired. I think a diversity of views if extremely valuable.

I just get my back up when people say things like 'there need to more X in 
charge' (for any value of X that refers to a characteristic that someone is born 
with)

David Lang

On Fri, 15 Dec 2023, Dave Taht wrote:

> This is principally a male dominated list, and I in general assume
> that the public debate over fiber, bandwidth, etc, etc skews heavily
> male also.
>
> It is a very good set of questions to ask about how the internet
> should be structured to best meet the needs of both sexes, and how
> that has changed over time, and may change in the future! I hesitate
> to even make one overbroad conclusion! Permanent connectivity and
> messaging seems more important to women than men, and a phone more
> important than fiber. Security (tracking and/or protecting kids),
> also. It is something I would rather research than draw premature
> conclusions from.
>
> https://www.google.com/search?q=how+do+men+and+women+use+the+internet+differently
>
> On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 1:42 PM David Lang via Starlink
> <starlink at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>>
>> why do you think telehealth won't work over LEO services?
>>
>> I've used it personally.
>>
>> Even if women use telehealth more than men, that doesn't say that women have any
>> particular advantage in moving the bits around that make telehealth possible.
>>
>> David Lang
>>
>> On Fri, 15 Dec 2023, rjmcmahon wrote:
>>
>>> Women are the primary users and providers of telehealth services. They are
>>> using broadband to care for our population. They also run most of the
>>> addiction services across our country, whatever the addiction may be. So
>>> gender actually matters. Ask them as providers. Telehealth doesn't work over
>>> LEO (nor does it matter much for men on boats.) Same for distance learning.
>>>
>>> https://www.healthcaredive.com/news/women-more-likely-telehealth-patients-providers-covid-19-pandemic/608153/
>>>
>>> As Washington considers which virtual care flexibilities should remain in
>>> place post-COVID-19, experts are flagging that paring back telehealth access
>>> and affordability will disproportionately affect women, even as a growing
>>> share of startups emerge to address women’s unique health needs.
>>>
>>> While women are more likely than men to visit doctors and consume healthcare
>>> services in general, telehealth seems to be uniquely attractive to women.
>>>
>>> Bob
>>>> who exactly do you think is calling for there to be no Internet
>>>> access? and what in the world does the sex of individuals have to do
>>>> with shipping bits around?
>>>>
>>>> Starlink (and hopefully it's future competitors) provides a way to get
>>>> Internet service to everyone without having to run fiber to every
>>>> house.
>>>>
>>>> As for the parallels with rural electrification, if that problem were
>>>> to be faced today, would the right answer be massive public agencies
>>>> to build and run miles of wire from massive central power plants? or
>>>> would the right answer be solar + batteries in individual houses for
>>>> the most rural folks, with small modular reactors to power the larger
>>>> population areas?
>>>>
>>>> Just because there was only one way to achieve a goal in the past
>>>> doesn't mean that approach is the best thing to do today.
>>>>
>>>> David Lang
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, 15 Dec 2023, rjmcmahon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>
>>>>> We're trying to modernize America. LBJ helped do it for electricity
>>>>> decades ago. It's our turn to step up to the plate. Tele-health and
>>>>> distance learning requires us to do so. There is so much to follow.
>>>>>
>>>>> A reminder what many women went through before LBJ showed up. I'm
>>>>> skeptical a patriarchy under Musk is even close to capable. We probably
>>>>> need a woman to lead us, or at least motivate us to do our best work for
>>>>> our country and to be an example to the world.
>>>>>
>>>>> A Hill Country farm wife had to do her chores even if she was ill – no
>>>>> matter how ill. Because Hill Country women were too poor to afford proper
>>>>> medical care they often suffered perineal tears in childbirth. During the
>>>>> 1930s, the federal government sent physicians to examine a sampling of
>>>>> Hill Country women. The doctors found that, out of 275 women, 158 had
>>>>> perineal tears. Many of them, the team of gynecologists reported, were
>>>>> third-degree tears, “tears so bad that it is difficult to see how they
>>>>> stand on their feet.” But they were standing on their feet, and doing all
>>>>> the chores that Hill Country wives had always done – hauling the water,
>>>>> hauling the wood, canning, washing, ironing, helping with the shearing,
>>>>> the plowing and the picking.
>>>>>
>>>>> Because there was no electricity.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob
>>>>>> On Fri, 15 Dec 2023, Sebastian Moeller via Starlink wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Frantisek,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Dec 15, 2023, at 13:46, Frantisek Borsik via Nnagain
>>>>>>>> <nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thus, technically speaking, one would like the advantages of satcom
>>>>>>>> such as starlink, to be at least 5gbit/s in 10 years time, to overcome
>>>>>>>> the 'tangled fiber' problem.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, not really. Starlink was about to address the issue of digital
>>>>>>>> divide -
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   I beg to differ. Starlink is a commercial enterprise with the goal to
>>>>>>> make a profit by offering (usable) internet access essentially
>>>>>>> everywhere; it is not as far as I can tell an attempt at specifically
>>>>>>> reducing the digital divide (were often an important factor is not
>>>>>>> necessarily location but financial means).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Every Inernet company " commercial enterprise with the goal to make a
>>>>>> profit by offering (usable) internet" don't dismiss a company because
>>>>>> of that. Starlink (and the other Satellite ISPs) all exist to service
>>>>>> people who can't use traditional wired infrastructure
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> delivering internet to those 640k locations, where there is literally
>>>>>>>> none today. Fiber will NEVER get there. And it will get there, it will
>>>>>>>> be like 10 years down the road.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   This is IHO the wrong approach to take. The goal needs to be a
>>>>>>> universal FTTH access network (with the exception of extreme locations,
>>>>>>> no need to pull fiber up to the highest Bivouac shelter on Mt. Whitney).
>>>>>>> And f that takes a decade or two, so be it, this is infrastructure that
>>>>>>> will keep on helping for many decades once rolled-out. However given
>>>>>>> that time frame one should consider work-arounds for the interim period.
>>>>>>> I would have naively thought starlink would qualify for that from a
>>>>>>> technical perspective, but then the FCC documents actually discussion
>>>>>>> requirements and how they were or were not met/promised by starlink was
>>>>>>> mostly redacted.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> what do you consider 'extreme locations'? how long a run between
>>>>>> houses is 'too far'?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> we've seen the failure of commercial fiber monopolies in cities with
>>>>>> housing density of several houses per acre (and even where there are
>>>>>> apartment complexes there as well) because it's not profitable enough.
>>>>>> When you get into areas where it's 'how many acres per house' the cost
>>>>>> of running FTTH gets very high. I don't think this is the majority of
>>>>>> the population of the US any longer (but I don't know for sure), but
>>>>>> it's very clearly the majority of the area of the US. And once you get
>>>>>> out of the major metro areas, even getting fiber to every town or
>>>>>> village becomes a major undertaking.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is running fiber 30 miles to support a village of 700 people an
>>>>>> 'extreme location'? let me introduce you to Vermontville MI
>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermontville,_Michigan which is less
>>>>>> than an hours drive from the state capitol.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David Lang
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> Nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net
>>>>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain
>>>>>
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