[NNagain] [Starlink] FCC Upholds Denial of Starlink's RDOF Application
Dick Roy
dickroy at alum.mit.edu
Sat Dec 16 13:18:16 EST 2023
It might be worth pondering the following questions: Why is professional football (in the US) dominated by males when half the population is female??? Why aren’t women demanding their fair representation on the field???
Hmmmm ….
:-)
-----Original Message-----
From: Starlink [mailto:starlink-bounces at lists.bufferbloat.net] On Behalf Of rjmcmahon via Starlink
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2023 9:31 AM
To: David Lang
Cc: starlink at lists.bufferbloat.net; Network Neutrality is back! Let´s make the technical aspects heard this time!
Subject: Re: [Starlink] [NNagain] FCC Upholds Denial of Starlink's RDOF Application
The president who ran Harvey Mudd College had to fix their computer
science problem of a 90% to 10% male to female ratio. She was asked,
"What's the goal?" She responded, "It should reflect to population so
50/50." The others said, "Be realistic."
She was and she got it to 50/50 where it should be in every technology
group.Though we have more improvements to be done.
https://hechingerreport.org/an-unnoticed-result-of-the-decline-of-men-in-college-its-harder-for-women-to-get-in/
There is now way to fix a problem without getting passed the denial
phase. This list population, and the LEO worshiping of Musk displayed
here by its constituents, are very much white male things. Not noticing
this & staying silent on this shows a lack of integrity by the group. My
judgment.
Bob
> to be very clear, I am in no way saying that anyone's (let alone
> saying women's) views are not desired. I think a diversity of views if
> extremely valuable.
>
> I just get my back up when people say things like 'there need to more
> X in charge' (for any value of X that refers to a characteristic that
> someone is born with)
>
> David Lang
>
> On Fri, 15 Dec 2023, Dave Taht wrote:
>
>> This is principally a male dominated list, and I in general assume
>> that the public debate over fiber, bandwidth, etc, etc skews heavily
>> male also.
>>
>> It is a very good set of questions to ask about how the internet
>> should be structured to best meet the needs of both sexes, and how
>> that has changed over time, and may change in the future! I hesitate
>> to even make one overbroad conclusion! Permanent connectivity and
>> messaging seems more important to women than men, and a phone more
>> important than fiber. Security (tracking and/or protecting kids),
>> also. It is something I would rather research than draw premature
>> conclusions from.
>>
>> https://www.google.com/search?q=how+do+men+and+women+use+the+internet+differently
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 1:42 PM David Lang via Starlink
>> <starlink at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> why do you think telehealth won't work over LEO services?
>>>
>>> I've used it personally.
>>>
>>> Even if women use telehealth more than men, that doesn't say that
>>> women have any
>>> particular advantage in moving the bits around that make telehealth
>>> possible.
>>>
>>> David Lang
>>>
>>> On Fri, 15 Dec 2023, rjmcmahon wrote:
>>>
>>>> Women are the primary users and providers of telehealth services.
>>>> They are
>>>> using broadband to care for our population. They also run most of
>>>> the
>>>> addiction services across our country, whatever the addiction may
>>>> be. So
>>>> gender actually matters. Ask them as providers. Telehealth doesn't
>>>> work over
>>>> LEO (nor does it matter much for men on boats.) Same for distance
>>>> learning.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.healthcaredive.com/news/women-more-likely-telehealth-patients-providers-covid-19-pandemic/608153/
>>>>
>>>> As Washington considers which virtual care flexibilities should
>>>> remain in
>>>> place post-COVID-19, experts are flagging that paring back
>>>> telehealth access
>>>> and affordability will disproportionately affect women, even as a
>>>> growing
>>>> share of startups emerge to address women’s unique health needs.
>>>>
>>>> While women are more likely than men to visit doctors and consume
>>>> healthcare
>>>> services in general, telehealth seems to be uniquely attractive to
>>>> women.
>>>>
>>>> Bob
>>>>> who exactly do you think is calling for there to be no Internet
>>>>> access? and what in the world does the sex of individuals have to
>>>>> do
>>>>> with shipping bits around?
>>>>>
>>>>> Starlink (and hopefully it's future competitors) provides a way to
>>>>> get
>>>>> Internet service to everyone without having to run fiber to every
>>>>> house.
>>>>>
>>>>> As for the parallels with rural electrification, if that problem
>>>>> were
>>>>> to be faced today, would the right answer be massive public
>>>>> agencies
>>>>> to build and run miles of wire from massive central power plants?
>>>>> or
>>>>> would the right answer be solar + batteries in individual houses
>>>>> for
>>>>> the most rural folks, with small modular reactors to power the
>>>>> larger
>>>>> population areas?
>>>>>
>>>>> Just because there was only one way to achieve a goal in the past
>>>>> doesn't mean that approach is the best thing to do today.
>>>>>
>>>>> David Lang
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 15 Dec 2023, rjmcmahon wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We're trying to modernize America. LBJ helped do it for
>>>>>> electricity
>>>>>> decades ago. It's our turn to step up to the plate. Tele-health
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> distance learning requires us to do so. There is so much to
>>>>>> follow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A reminder what many women went through before LBJ showed up. I'm
>>>>>> skeptical a patriarchy under Musk is even close to capable. We
>>>>>> probably
>>>>>> need a woman to lead us, or at least motivate us to do our best
>>>>>> work for
>>>>>> our country and to be an example to the world.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A Hill Country farm wife had to do her chores even if she was ill
>>>>>> – no
>>>>>> matter how ill. Because Hill Country women were too poor to afford
>>>>>> proper
>>>>>> medical care they often suffered perineal tears in childbirth.
>>>>>> During the
>>>>>> 1930s, the federal government sent physicians to examine a
>>>>>> sampling of
>>>>>> Hill Country women. The doctors found that, out of 275 women, 158
>>>>>> had
>>>>>> perineal tears. Many of them, the team of gynecologists reported,
>>>>>> were
>>>>>> third-degree tears, “tears so bad that it is difficult to see how
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> stand on their feet.” But they were standing on their feet, and
>>>>>> doing all
>>>>>> the chores that Hill Country wives had always done – hauling the
>>>>>> water,
>>>>>> hauling the wood, canning, washing, ironing, helping with the
>>>>>> shearing,
>>>>>> the plowing and the picking.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Because there was no electricity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>>> On Fri, 15 Dec 2023, Sebastian Moeller via Starlink wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Frantisek,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Dec 15, 2023, at 13:46, Frantisek Borsik via Nnagain
>>>>>>>>> <nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thus, technically speaking, one would like the advantages of
>>>>>>>>> satcom
>>>>>>>>> such as starlink, to be at least 5gbit/s in 10 years time, to
>>>>>>>>> overcome
>>>>>>>>> the 'tangled fiber' problem.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No, not really. Starlink was about to address the issue of
>>>>>>>>> digital
>>>>>>>>> divide -
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I beg to differ. Starlink is a commercial enterprise with the
>>>>>>>> goal to
>>>>>>>> make a profit by offering (usable) internet access essentially
>>>>>>>> everywhere; it is not as far as I can tell an attempt at
>>>>>>>> specifically
>>>>>>>> reducing the digital divide (were often an important factor is
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> necessarily location but financial means).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Every Inernet company " commercial enterprise with the goal to
>>>>>>> make a
>>>>>>> profit by offering (usable) internet" don't dismiss a company
>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>> of that. Starlink (and the other Satellite ISPs) all exist to
>>>>>>> service
>>>>>>> people who can't use traditional wired infrastructure
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> delivering internet to those 640k locations, where there is
>>>>>>>>> literally
>>>>>>>>> none today. Fiber will NEVER get there. And it will get there,
>>>>>>>>> it will
>>>>>>>>> be like 10 years down the road.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is IHO the wrong approach to take. The goal needs to be a
>>>>>>>> universal FTTH access network (with the exception of extreme
>>>>>>>> locations,
>>>>>>>> no need to pull fiber up to the highest Bivouac shelter on Mt.
>>>>>>>> Whitney).
>>>>>>>> And f that takes a decade or two, so be it, this is
>>>>>>>> infrastructure that
>>>>>>>> will keep on helping for many decades once rolled-out. However
>>>>>>>> given
>>>>>>>> that time frame one should consider work-arounds for the interim
>>>>>>>> period.
>>>>>>>> I would have naively thought starlink would qualify for that
>>>>>>>> from a
>>>>>>>> technical perspective, but then the FCC documents actually
>>>>>>>> discussion
>>>>>>>> requirements and how they were or were not met/promised by
>>>>>>>> starlink was
>>>>>>>> mostly redacted.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> what do you consider 'extreme locations'? how long a run between
>>>>>>> houses is 'too far'?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> we've seen the failure of commercial fiber monopolies in cities
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> housing density of several houses per acre (and even where there
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> apartment complexes there as well) because it's not profitable
>>>>>>> enough.
>>>>>>> When you get into areas where it's 'how many acres per house' the
>>>>>>> cost
>>>>>>> of running FTTH gets very high. I don't think this is the
>>>>>>> majority of
>>>>>>> the population of the US any longer (but I don't know for sure),
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> it's very clearly the majority of the area of the US. And once
>>>>>>> you get
>>>>>>> out of the major metro areas, even getting fiber to every town or
>>>>>>> village becomes a major undertaking.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is running fiber 30 miles to support a village of 700 people an
>>>>>>> 'extreme location'? let me introduce you to Vermontville MI
>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermontville,_Michigan which is
>>>>>>> less
>>>>>>> than an hours drive from the state capitol.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> David Lang
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Nnagain mailing list
>>>>>>> Nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net
>>>>>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain
>>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Starlink mailing list
>>> Starlink at lists.bufferbloat.net
>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>>
>>
>>
>>
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