[NNagain] The rise and fall of the 90's telecom bubble

[Sebastian Moeller]

Hi Richard,


> On Nov 13, 2023, at 16:08, Dick Roy via Nnagain <nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> 
>  
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nnagain [mailto:nnagain-bounces at lists.bufferbloat.net] On Behalf Of Sebastian Moeller via Nnagain
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2023 6:15 AM
> To: Network Neutrality is back! Let´s make the technical aspects heard this time!
> Cc: Sebastian Moeller
> Subject: Re: [NNagain] The rise and fall of the 90's telecom bubble
>  
> Hi Jason,
>  
>  
> > On Nov 13, 2023, at 08:54, Livingood, Jason via Nnagain <nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> > 
> > > Would love to spend some time thinking together about what a smart manufacturing system would look like in terms of connectivity, latency, compute availability, anything that occurs to you. I know a guy who does devops for factories, and he has amazing stories -- might be good to make that connection as well. 
> >  
> > One of the L4S (low latency, low loss, scalable throughput) demos that Nokia did at a recent IETF hackathon showed a simulated 5G access network to do low latency remote control of cranes in an industrial port facility. It seemed like one of their points was that you could remotely operate cargo container movements with the crane via a remote workforce over a low delay network connection - even with fairly limited bandwidth (they’d adjust the throughput down to just a few hundred kbps).
> >  
> > While they did not say much more, I could envision a port operator being able to gain more efficiency by enabling a skilled operator to control cranes at several ports around the world on an as-needed basis (vs. being based in 1 port and having some downtime or low utilization of their skills/training), even from the comfort of home.
>  
>  
>       I would stop doing business with such ports... there clearly are accidents (or sabotage/jamming) just waiting to happen using wireless connections for such use-cases... Yes, I understand that that is what Nokia sells, so everything looks like a nail to them, but really "caveat emptor", just because something can be done does not mean it should be done as well... 
>  
> Regards
>       Sebastian
>  
> P.S.: Currently in the US for a conference, getting reminded how shitty GSM/LTE can be, heck the conference WiFi (with 25K attendees) is more responsive than GSM... I am sure 5G might be better, but my phone is LTE only...
> [RR] Welcome to the “club”!  We in the US have been dealing with this for over 30 years … why you ask???? ... answer … CDMA and the IPR behind it!  It was and still is “all about the money!”. My phone has 5G and when download rates plummet to the floor, all I have to do is look at the top of the display, and lo and behold … I’m on 5G!!! If you believe 5G is going to be better, I have a bridge for you that “is going to be soooo much better” JJJ

	All good explanations for what I see, yet this is happening in the capital... (but truth be told, when I bought this phone I did not pay much attention to which bands it was suited for, it is not impossible that it at least partly my phone's fault that I am connecting with EDGE speeds, quite the throw-back to the 2000s ;) but back then EDGE was indeed cutting edge). 
About that bridge, I hope this is in NY city?



Regards
	Sebastian


>  
> RR
>  
>  
>  
>  
> >  
> > Jason
> >  
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