[NNagain] water infrastructure and much more

[Dave Taht]

Removing debbie from the thread, per her request.

I note that I rather like the ability to comment freely on someones
work, and occasionally have them listen, constructively.

On Sun, Nov 19, 2023 at 6:35 PM Debbie Chachra <dchachra at olin.edu> wrote:
>
> I was added to this thread without my consent and I do not wish to be part of this discussion. Please remove my email address.
>
> .dc.
>
> --
>
> Debbie Chachra, PhD
>
> (she/they)
>
>
> How Infrastructure Works [US/UK]
>
>
>
> Professor of Engineering
>
> www.olin.edu
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: rjmcmahon <rjmcmahon at rjmcmahon.com>
> Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2023 5:54 PM
> To: Network Neutrality is back! Let´s make the technical aspects heard this time! <nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net>
> Cc: Dave Taht <dave.taht at gmail.com>; Debbie Chachra <debbie.chachra at olin.edu>
> Subject: Re: [NNagain] water infrastructure and much more
>
> [FROM AN EXTERNAL SENDER]
>
> The initial phase of potable water in Boston wasn't because of germ
> theory but rather about the temperance movement. Also, water
> infrastructure was used to support fire departments in cities in the US.
> Our cities tended to experience a lot of conflagrations. Rich people had
> access to piped water infrastructure way ahead of poor people in Boston
> for sure. It was a doctor who led Boston to provide universal access to
> clean, potable water in the name of public health. There are a lot of
> books written by trained historians on this - no need to for us to
> guess.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperance_movement#:~:text=People%20were%20instructed%20to%20only,had%20gained%201.5%20million%20members.
>
> Teetotalism (1830s)
> See also: Blue ribbon badge
> As a response to rising social problems in urbanized areas, a stricter
> form of temperance emerged called teetotalism, which promoted the
> complete abstinence from alcoholic beverages, this time including wine
> and beer, not just ardent spirits. The term teetotaler came from the
> capital "T"s that were written next to the names of people who pledged
> complete abstinence from alcohol. People were instructed to only drink
> pure water and the teetotalists were known as the "pure-water army". In
> the US, the American Temperance Union advocated total abstinence from
> distilled and fermented liquors. By 1835, they had gained 1.5 million
> members.
>
> Bob
> > I have not had much time to write anything long form, but I enjoy
> > reading long, thoughtful pieces on Sundays, and this one might
> > ultimately yield analogies for internet infrastructure also.
> >
> > https://comment.org/care-at-scale/
> >
> > "In the late nineteenth century, the wealthy taxpayers of Boston were
> > convinced to build out water and sewage systems by a straightforward
> > logic: every person in the city, rich or poor, needed clean water to
> > drink every day. Without it, they would be at risk of contracting
> > water-borne diseases like cholera. And with so many people in
> > proximity, wealth alone couldn’t provide protection from contagious
> > disease."
> >
> > While otherwise a wonderful read - go read it!! -
> >
> > Me being me, I  disagree that "the wealthy taxpayers of boston
> > recognized the need for common water infrastructure"  because the germ
> > theory of disease was not well accepted, and the organism behind the
> > epidemic was first described in 1854 and not again until 1884. I
> > imagine there was great - AGW-esq - sturm und drang - and attempts to
> > shift the blame for cholera to merely "being poor", or "foreign", or
> > "the will of the gods", or rats - and  attempts to shift the costs
> > onto various other parties before safer water distribution systems
> > were built, but! I freely admit, I have not done the research into the
> > controversies that IMHO, must have existed back then. I think that
> > practical problems, like enough city water in the first place to
> > support the population density therein, also were a factor.
> >
> > The need for sound water and septic systems was recognized by many
> > cities two millenia prior to this... and not by many others. I
> > remember when the Delaware river and Boston Harbor were sewers, and
> > have lived many places  around the world where that was still the case
> > for many rivers.
> >
> > From some history (that I already knew) see this:
> >
> > https://www.ph.ucla.edu/epi/snow/firstdiscoveredcholera.html
> >
> > (It is remarkable how many expired SSL certificates there are in the
> > world, also.)
> >
> > The Boston river caught fire many times before 1969, and until then,
> > no-body cared:
> >
> > https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/cuyahoga-river-caught-fire-least-dozen-times-no-one-cared-until-1969-180972444/



-- 
:( My old R&D campus is up for sale: https://tinyurl.com/yurtlab
Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos