[NNagain] The growing challenges of discerning authentic vs. inauthentic information and identity

Mon Jan 8 21:30:03 EST 2024

On Mon, 8 Jan 2024, David Bray, PhD wrote:

> Also signatures and the like only work for things where you actively
> attest.
>
> What if it's a supposed photo, video, or other claims that a person did (or
> did not do) something. Sadly we know eyewitness testimony actually is
> replete with errors... which is why heretofore "roll the video tape"
> (you're at least a Gen X'er or older if you recall video tapes) has been
> what courts relied upon:
> https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-the-eyes-have-it/
>
> What do we do if that's now questioned? Watermarking of photos, audio, and
> videos can be overcome - and, sadly, may actually super-empower either
> surveillance states or authoritarian states to "control" media. So free and
> pluralistic societies will be especially challenged here?

signing the images and then the reputation of the person doing the signing.

now, this doesn't solve the court problem, but there I would say there needs to 
be multiple sources in any case.

David Lang

>
> On Mon, Jan 8, 2024 at 5:08 PM David Lang via Nnagain <
> nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
>> signatures work, but how do you know what signatures to trust? the current
>> approach of 'trust signatures where they have paid one of a few companies'
>> is
>> not going to work. There will need to be some sort of decentralized
>> reputation
>> system where you can pick who you trust
>>
>> Yes, some people will chose to trust people who feed them fakes. That is
>> better
>> than giving any one entity the ability to declare anything as "true, don't
>> you
>> dare question it" (as we have seen over the last few years)
>>
>> David Lang
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 8 Jan 2024, Dave Taht via Nnagain wrote:
>>
>>> Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2024 15:17:12 -0500
>>> From: Dave Taht via Nnagain <nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net>
>>> To: Network Neutrality is back! Let´s make the technical aspects heard
>> this
>>>     time! <nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net>
>>> Cc: Dave Taht <dave.taht at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [NNagain] The growing challenges of discerning authentic vs.
>>>     inauthentic information and identity
>>>
>>> Basically I am interested in the intersection between politics and the
>>> internet in the context of this list, which is broader than the NN
>>> issue. So I appreciate monday conversation starters like these.
>>>
>>> In my case, I often have to revert to thinking about the present in
>>> terms of what used to be science fiction. "Interface" - upon
>>> cogitating about what the coming election will look like came to mind
>>> -  https://www.amazon.com/Interface-Stephen-Bury/dp/0553572407
>>>
>>> When I first saw the deepfakes Pr0n phenomenon a few years ago, I had
>>> my oh-ghu moment, as I realized once tools like that got into
>>> everyone's hands the truth and authenticity of any form of media begin
>>> to vanish, and the recent rise of the LLMs *almost* put the finish to
>>> it. Thankfully the LLMs (so far) have a terrible tendency to
>>> hallucinate which is often easily detectable, and overall, the
>>> technoliterati have managed to expel really bad ideas like
>>> crypto-grift, web3, and so on in the last few years. Web3 investment
>>> is down 70% this year...
>>>
>>> I now wish very much that the concept of "whuffie" existed in the real
>>> world, but the flight to mastodon, twitter's addition of community
>>> notes, most of newspapers moving to a for-pay model, and in general,
>>> the innoculation of the populace at large to distrust everything they
>>> learn on line is well underway which I find some comfort in.
>>>
>>> Promoting widespread skepticism and disbelief are powerful tools, but
>>> trying to find guidelines to what is actually truthful harder. For
>>> example, I read wikipedia's talk page on everything controversial. Too
>>> few do that. I recently sat through fox news with my mom, because her
>>> blood pressure was too low, and it served well to "improve" that, and
>>> me, take a lisinopril.
>>>
>>> Life's just a ride, tho, you know?
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_and_Out_in_the_Magic_Kingdom
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 3, 2024 at 9:32 AM David Bray, PhD via Nnagain
>>> <nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dear NNAgain’ers,
>>>>
>>>> Today on a different listserv, I joined a discussion on what I sense
>> will be a pressing issue across multiple sectors in 2024. I recognize this
>> is not NN-related and so if it isn’t of interest, I apologize in advance.
>> However as most of us have technology background here, my sense is we
>> generally have a better sense of the looming issue than non-technical folks
>> at the moment. Below I outline some of the contours of the evolving problem
>> space, and invite each of you to share your thoughts as I sense the
>> diversity of perspectives here might help with brainstorming potential
>> solutions necessary for civil societies to continue:
>>>>
>>>> Premise: We are at the precipice of an extended era where
>> inauthenticity vs. authenticity will be difficult to discern, that that
>> involves multiple forms of content including biometrics and more.
>>>>
>>>> In isolated pockets, governments are becoming aware of this - however
>> it’s going to be really difficult for pluralistic societies like the U.S.
>> where any of the Estates that traditionally would have a role to play in
>> verifying the authentic vs. inauthentic nature of something have had public
>> trust in them as arbiters eroding. And it doesn’t help that both politics
>> and advertisement rely on presenting things as 100% authentic when they’re
>> often only somewhat so (or, to be more generous, mix facts with lots of
>> beliefs).
>>>>
>>>> Not supporting autocracies, however they have a bit of a “home field”
>> advantage here because there is only one singular narrative - and anyone
>> who questions it can be fired/isolated, imprisoned/disappeared, or
>> killed/executed. Tools of such regimes, to include filtering, censorship,
>> and repression - will be used to ensure only one narrative (authentic or
>> not, mostly likely the latter) is seen by a majority of their population.
>> Pluralistic societies will have it much harder, and the last ten years will
>> pale in comparison to the challenges of sensemaking in a world flooded by
>> both media and mediums of questionable authenticity.
>>>>
>>>> Back in 2019-2020, I did my darnest to connect Pablo and an additional
>> People-Centered Internet expert with Salesforce that has a lot of CRM data
>> with the proposal that SF could provide a feature where, as part of the
>> CRM, “out of band” questions could be included to do some sort of
>> additional level of trust that the entity on the other end was who they
>> claimed to be. Unfortunately that pitch was overshadowed by larger concerns
>> that SF’s software, give some of its features, could be misused in ways not
>> intended by them (think about ways akin to Cambridge Analytica) and they
>> were trying to figure out how they could incorporate features to prevent
>> actors from misusing/abusing their software in ways not intended by them as
>> a company.
>>>>
>>>> 2024 is going to be hard. Manipulation of what people appear to see,
>> hear, sense - and thus know - is becoming sadly easier.
>>>>
>>>> Meanwhile understanding of the importance of triangulation,
>> triangulation, triangulation from different perspective to discern
>> authenticity vs. inauthenticity remains time-consuming and hard. Perhaps we
>> need to consider standing up private sector Dun & Bradstreet-like entities
>> for identity and other important adjudicatory functions - however that
>> doesn’t immediately solve the issue of how to help the public in a would
>> experiencing a flood of questionable content, information, and identities?
>> And who “watches” the adjudicators?
>>>>
>>>> David Bray, PhD Principal, LeadDoAdapt Ventures, Inc.
>>>> Loomis Innovation Council Co-Chair & Distinguished Fellow
>>>> Henry S. Stimson Center, Business Executives for National Security
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nnagain mailing list
>>>> Nnagain at lists.bufferbloat.net
>>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> 40 years of net history, a couple songs:
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9RGX6QFm5E
>>> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos
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