<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 11:06 AM Dave Taht <<a href="mailto:dave.taht@gmail.com">dave.taht@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">As I noted also on the twitter thread for this, were I there, and dishonest, (particularly were gobs of money on the table) I could easily have permuted the bandwidth on both tests hugely upwards from a single laptop by running continuous speedtests. But speedtests are not what we do day in or out, and reflect normal usage not at all.<div><br></div><div>The 83% of people (experts!!!) that were wrong is ... mindboggling.<br><div><br></div><div>PS What wifi standard was at ietf? Is this still the old ciscos? The headline bandwidths claimed for any version of wifi drop dramatically at distance and with multiple users present. So it might have taken a couple laptops out of the thousand there to move the stats in a perverse direction, now that I think about it.</div><div><br></div><div>Thank you for doing this experiment! While there are certainly also cases were mass groupings of people totally saturate the underlying mac (more than the perceived bandwidth - I have seen congestion collapse and a sea of retransmits even in small wifi gatherings), the only number that seems a bit off in your test from a typical residential/small office is the roughly 3.5x1 ratio between down and up. I am willing (for now) to put that down to engineers doing actual work, rather than netflix. </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>CORRECTION! 3x1. my fingers wanted it to be 5x1 (which is quite common in many deployments), and then decided on their own to create 3.5x1... While there is no ideal up/down ratio I firmly believe that 5x1 should be the outside asymmetry, and there are compelling reasons. </div><div><br></div><div>I would be perfectly happy with a 10/10 connection (with bufferbloat fixed), if only there was a way to pay for just that.</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div>I would so love to see more measurements like this at other wifi concentration points, in offices and coffee shops. Packet captures too!!!! </div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 10:46 AM Livingood, Jason via Nnagain <<a href="mailto:nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net" target="_blank">nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>
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<p>On the subject of how much bandwidth does one household need, here's a fun stat for you.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;color:black">At the IETF’s<span> </span><a href="https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/118/" title="https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/118/" target="_blank">118th meeting</a><span> </span>last
week (Nov 4 – 10, 2023), there were over 1,000 engineers in attendance. At peak there were 870 devices connected to the WiFi network. Peak bandwidth usage:</span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in;font-variant-caps:normal;text-align:start;word-spacing:0px" type="disc">
<li style="color:black;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in">
<span style="font-size:14pt">Downstream peak ~750 Mbps</span><u></u><u></u></li><li style="color:black;margin-top:0in;margin-bottom:0in">
<span style="font-size:14pt">Upstream ~250 Mbps</span><u></u><u></u></li></ul>
<p><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p>From my pre-meeting Twitter poll (<a href="https://twitter.com/jlivingood/status/1720060429311901873" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/jlivingood/status/1720060429311901873</a>):<span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="color:black"><img border="0" width="593" height="290" style="width: 6.177in; height: 3.0208in;" id="m_8977650482364822955m_-7129791562365835753Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:ii_18bce8b7c3a4cff311" alt="A screenshot of a chat
Description automatically generated"></span><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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</div></blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div>:( My old R&D campus is up for sale: <a href="https://tinyurl.com/yurtlab" target="_blank">https://tinyurl.com/yurtlab</a> <br></div><div>Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos<br></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div>:( My old R&D campus is up for sale: <a href="https://tinyurl.com/yurtlab" target="_blank">https://tinyurl.com/yurtlab</a> <br></div><div>Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos<br></div></div></div></div>