<div dir="ltr">This has some connection to what the creator of Wondershaper ("Wondeshaper must die! - I always keep hearing Dave in my head, when I see that word anywhere :-), <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7139937627448733697/">Bert Hubert</a>, shared today: <a href="https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/anonymous-help/">https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/anonymous-help/</a><div><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div>All the best,</div><div><br></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="color:rgb(34,34,34)">Frank<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="color:rgb(34,34,34)">Frantisek (Frank) Borsik<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik</a><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="color:rgb(34,34,34)">Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="color:rgb(34,34,34)">iMessage, mobile: +420775230885<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="color:rgb(34,34,34)">Skype: casioa5302ca<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href="mailto:frantisek.borsik@gmail.com" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">frantisek.borsik@gmail.com</a></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Dec 11, 2023 at 7:51 PM rjmcmahon via Nnagain <<a href="mailto:nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net">nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">My opinion only and not those of my employer.<br>
<br>
I'm ok with people getting paid for doing new work and new innovations. <br>
I deliver iperf 2 free to all, and to be honest, I may be able to have a <br>
better product or, at least some public servers, if users paid <br>
something.<br>
<br>
I think Dave & others run into this issue too. Few to no payments for <br>
their work.<br>
<br>
The challenge for us in sw is that the marginal cost to produce (or unit <br>
value) is basically zero. Then it's the up front costs (or non recurring <br>
engineering NRE) that drives the recovery. That goes to zero too per <br>
amortization across millions of users. This is all predictable by Adam <br>
Smith himself - yet many of us try to defy those realities.<br>
<br>
I get that everybody wants free things. But it can be unrealistic and <br>
demotivating when people demand things to be free. What can happen is <br>
nobody will do the work or innovation (or be under constant threat by <br>
their employer of being let go because free things don't directly drive <br>
up profits required shareholders. Somehow we persist.)<br>
<br>
Bob<br>
>> “A possible L4S end game?”<br>
> <br>
> Doubtful; latency is just emerging as a new competitive factor –<br>
> like throughput. I also think – if we care about reducing latency<br>
> – we should embrace whatever works well and achieves scale (Betamax<br>
> vs VHS). 😉<br>
> <br>
> From: Nnagain <<a href="mailto:nnagain-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net" target="_blank">nnagain-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net</a>> on behalf of<br>
> Frantisek Borsik via Nnagain <<a href="mailto:nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net" target="_blank">nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net</a>><br>
> Reply-To: Network Neutrality is back! Let´s make the technical<br>
> aspects heard this time! <<a href="mailto:nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net" target="_blank">nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net</a>><br>
> Date: Monday, December 11, 2023 at 04:39<br>
> To: Network Neutrality is back! Let´s make the technical aspects<br>
> heard this time! <<a href="mailto:nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net" target="_blank">nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net</a>><br>
> Cc: Frank Borsik <<a href="mailto:frantisek.borsik@gmail.com" target="_blank">frantisek.borsik@gmail.com</a>><br>
> Subject: Re: [NNagain] The Verge: The quiet plan to make the internet<br>
> feel faster<br>
> <br>
> Top story on HN:<br>
> <br>
> <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38597744" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38597744</a> [6]<br>
> <br>
> My pick for top comment:<br>
> <br>
> A possible L4S end game? 😁<br>
> <br>
> All the best,<br>
> <br>
> Frank<br>
> Frantisek (Frank) Borsik<br>
> <br>
> <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik</a> [3]<br>
> Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714<br>
> iMessage, mobile: +420775230885<br>
> Skype: casioa5302ca<br>
> <a href="mailto:frantisek.borsik@gmail.com" target="_blank">frantisek.borsik@gmail.com</a><br>
> <br>
> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 at 7:22 PM, Robert McMahon via Nnagain<br>
> <<a href="mailto:nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net" target="_blank">nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net</a>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
>> Sorry, this isn't a very good technical analysis. It's a push agenda<br>
>> for AQM. I get that many people's egos are tied to their belief that<br>
>> my algorithm came down from God himself. It's not true though.<br>
>> <br>
>> Bob<br>
>> <br>
>> On Dec 10, 2023, at 3:12 AM, Sauli Kiviranta via Nnagain<br>
>> <<a href="mailto:nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net" target="_blank">nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>> <br>
>> I find it alarming for the future of internet that there is a trend<br>
>> to<br>
>> use elbowing techniques to squeeze metrics out at the expense of all<br>
>> other flows. We know that when nobody plays fair the arms race ends<br>
>> badly.<br>
>> <br>
>> Best regards,<br>
>> Sauli<br>
>> <br>
>> On 12/10/23, Frantisek Borsik via Nnagain<br>
>> <<a href="mailto:nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net" target="_blank">nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>> <br>
>> Well, to be completely honest, I would say its about general<br>
>> public, really<br>
>> - it’s an article in The Verge :-)<br>
>> <br>
>> But yeah. Here’s something they should address:<br>
>> <br>
>> <a href="https://github.com/heistp/l4s-tests#key-findings" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://github.com/heistp/l4s-tests#key-findings</a> [1]<br>
>> <br>
>> In general - a potential harm to innocent bystanders is a biggest<br>
>> L4S<br>
>> problem:<br>
>> <br>
> <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/posts/frantisekborsik_jonathanmorton-l4s-ietf118-activity-7128317873571176448-GWAX" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.linkedin.com/posts/frantisekborsik_jonathanmorton-l4s-ietf118-activity-7128317873571176448-GWAX</a><br>
>> [2]<br>
>> <br>
>> All the best,<br>
>> <br>
>> Frank<br>
>> Frantisek (Frank) Borsik<br>
>> <br>
>> <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik</a> [3]<br>
>> Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714<br>
>> iMessage, mobile: +420775230885<br>
>> Skype: casioa5302ca<br>
>> <a href="mailto:frantisek.borsik@gmail.com" target="_blank">frantisek.borsik@gmail.com</a><br>
>> <br>
>> On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 at 5:48 AM, Matt Mathis via Nnagain <<br>
>> <a href="mailto:nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net" target="_blank">nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>> <br>
>> About L4S<br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
> <a href="https://www.theverge.com/23655762/l4s-internet-apple-comcast-latency-speed-bandwidth" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.theverge.com/23655762/l4s-internet-apple-comcast-latency-speed-bandwidth</a><br>
>> [4]<br>
>> <br>
>> It says something about their target audience that they feel they<br>
>> need to<br>
>> explain bytes vs bits.<br>
>> <br>
>> Thanks,<br>
>> --MM--<br>
>> Evil is defined by mortals who think they know "The Truth" and use<br>
>> force<br>
>> to apply it to others.<br>
>> <br>
>> -------------------------<br>
>> <br>
>> Matt Mathis (Email is best)<br>
>> Home & mobile: 412-654-7529 please leave a message if you must<br>
>> call.<br>
>> <br>
>> -------------------------<br>
>> <br>
>> Nnagain mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net" target="_blank">Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net</a><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain</a> [5]<br>
> <br>
> -------------------------<br>
> <br>
> Nnagain mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net" target="_blank">Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain</a> [5]<br>
> <br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Nnagain mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net" target="_blank">Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain</a> [5]<br>
> <br>
> Links:<br>
> ------<br>
> [1] <br>
> <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/heistp/l4s-tests*key-findings__;Iw!!CQl3mcHX2A!GwQbx9aZkco3K1qGFRsxRUzv1OhKS4Z_VrLHVujgUUvBPCyE0d0IbvZ4TLUixlfHEGkYd3JYZR-qh71u3oORLkrnt_Jjdven$" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/github.com/heistp/l4s-tests*key-findings__;Iw!!CQl3mcHX2A!GwQbx9aZkco3K1qGFRsxRUzv1OhKS4Z_VrLHVujgUUvBPCyE0d0IbvZ4TLUixlfHEGkYd3JYZR-qh71u3oORLkrnt_Jjdven$</a><br>
> [2] <br>
> <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.linkedin.com/posts/frantisekborsik_jonathanmorton-l4s-ietf118-activity-7128317873571176448-GWAX__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!GwQbx9aZkco3K1qGFRsxRUzv1OhKS4Z_VrLHVujgUUvBPCyE0d0IbvZ4TLUixlfHEGkYd3JYZR-qh71u3oORLkrnt5RQfEuC$" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.linkedin.com/posts/frantisekborsik_jonathanmorton-l4s-ietf118-activity-7128317873571176448-GWAX__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!GwQbx9aZkco3K1qGFRsxRUzv1OhKS4Z_VrLHVujgUUvBPCyE0d0IbvZ4TLUixlfHEGkYd3JYZR-qh71u3oORLkrnt5RQfEuC$</a><br>
> [3] <br>
> <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!GwQbx9aZkco3K1qGFRsxRUzv1OhKS4Z_VrLHVujgUUvBPCyE0d0IbvZ4TLUixlfHEGkYd3JYZR-qh71u3oORLkrnt24e-KKI$" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!GwQbx9aZkco3K1qGFRsxRUzv1OhKS4Z_VrLHVujgUUvBPCyE0d0IbvZ4TLUixlfHEGkYd3JYZR-qh71u3oORLkrnt24e-KKI$</a><br>
> [4] <br>
> <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.theverge.com/23655762/l4s-internet-apple-comcast-latency-speed-bandwidth__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!GwQbx9aZkco3K1qGFRsxRUzv1OhKS4Z_VrLHVujgUUvBPCyE0d0IbvZ4TLUixlfHEGkYd3JYZR-qh71u3oORLkrnt4RcaVq3$" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.theverge.com/23655762/l4s-internet-apple-comcast-latency-speed-bandwidth__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!GwQbx9aZkco3K1qGFRsxRUzv1OhKS4Z_VrLHVujgUUvBPCyE0d0IbvZ4TLUixlfHEGkYd3JYZR-qh71u3oORLkrnt4RcaVq3$</a><br>
> [5] <br>
> <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!GwQbx9aZkco3K1qGFRsxRUzv1OhKS4Z_VrLHVujgUUvBPCyE0d0IbvZ4TLUixlfHEGkYd3JYZR-qh71u3oORLkrnt1kOEovk$" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!GwQbx9aZkco3K1qGFRsxRUzv1OhKS4Z_VrLHVujgUUvBPCyE0d0IbvZ4TLUixlfHEGkYd3JYZR-qh71u3oORLkrnt1kOEovk$</a><br>
> [6] <br>
> <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38597744__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!GwQbx9aZkco3K1qGFRsxRUzv1OhKS4Z_VrLHVujgUUvBPCyE0d0IbvZ4TLUixlfHEGkYd3JYZR-qh71u3oORLkrntyFCpWS8$" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38597744__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!GwQbx9aZkco3K1qGFRsxRUzv1OhKS4Z_VrLHVujgUUvBPCyE0d0IbvZ4TLUixlfHEGkYd3JYZR-qh71u3oORLkrntyFCpWS8$</a><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Nnagain mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net" target="_blank">Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Nnagain mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net" target="_blank">Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain</a><br>
</blockquote></div>