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I agree Dave! Sometimes I find it difficult to drag myself away from the dopamine machine aka cell phone (credit for that phrase to Ben at epsilontheory.com), but I always appreciate it when I do.
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-- Tanya :-)
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On 12/15/2023 5:36 PM EST Dave Taht via Nnagain <<a href="mailto:nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net">nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net</a>> wrote:
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On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 2:13 PM David Bray, PhD via Nnagain
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<<a href="mailto:nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net">nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net</a>> wrote:
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This GPT(human)bot was responding to the engineered prompt: >>why do you think telehealth won't work over LEO services?
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As it's Friday, this GPT(human)bot bandwidth has been fully utilized for the week. Our servers will be back-on line come Monday.
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Wishing everyone (human or machine) a wonderful weekend ahead!
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Sometimes the best way to value something is to get away from it for a
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while. I recommend everybody log off... maybe take a walk
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in the park, see some friends, make some music, visit a library, play
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golf, go fishing, spend time with your loved ones, fire up a card
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game...
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stop with the technology for a while and re-engage your other senses.
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The internet will still be here when you get back.
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<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMoPR2IA2Uk" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMoPR2IA2Uk</a>
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On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 5:10 PM David Lang <<a href="mailto:david@lang.hm">david@lang.hm</a>> wrote:
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I don't disagree with anything that you say below, but the discussion was on the
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topic of starlink vs fiber, with the person I was responding to claiming that we
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needed to have women in charge of the Internet companies because of telehealth
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as well.
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I'm a remote worker and VERY aware of how limiting video calls are compared to
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in-person meetings.
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David Lang
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On Fri, 15 Dec 2023, David Bray, PhD wrote:
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There’s good evidence that physical health can be done over LEO as long as
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it isn’t low latency dependent. Of course our illustrious listserv founder
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Dave Taht will be quick to point out high latency is also found via
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ground-based connections too.
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That said, there is still a lot of research debate on whether mental health
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services can be delivered effectively over video in general - regardless of
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LEO or not. The concern is two fold:
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* video is suboptimal to detect tiny tells and other signatures of a
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patient developing a relationship with a health provider
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* 2D video actually is worse for brainstorming and creative ideation. One
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might say so what relative to delivering healthcare, except the evidence
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showing that video is worse for brainstorming indicates there’s actually a
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continual subconscious confusion when folks do video calls prompted by the
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body trying to discern if the one or more disembodied heads are friend or
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foe. Since we cannot see a person’s hands and body movements we don’t know
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if they’re coming to attack us or not.
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So future generations may look back and decide that with video calls we
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were literally messing with our brains’ own natural biological processes?
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On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 16:42 David Lang via Nnagain <
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<a href="mailto:nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net">nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net</a>> wrote:
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why do you think telehealth won't work over LEO services?
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I've used it personally.
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Even if women use telehealth more than men, that doesn't say that women
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have any
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particular advantage in moving the bits around that make telehealth
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possible.
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David Lang
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On Fri, 15 Dec 2023, rjmcmahon wrote:
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Women are the primary users and providers of telehealth services. They
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are
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using broadband to care for our population. They also run most of the
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addiction services across our country, whatever the addiction may be. So
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gender actually matters. Ask them as providers. Telehealth doesn't work
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over
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LEO (nor does it matter much for men on boats.) Same for distance
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learning.
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<a href="https://www.healthcaredive.com/news/women-more-likely-telehealth-patients-providers-covid-19-pandemic/608153/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://www.healthcaredive.com/news/women-more-likely-telehealth-patients-providers-covid-19-pandemic/608153/</a>
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As Washington considers which virtual care flexibilities should remain
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in
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place post-COVID-19, experts are flagging that paring back telehealth
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access
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and affordability will disproportionately affect women, even as a
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growing
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share of startups emerge to address women’s unique health needs.
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While women are more likely than men to visit doctors and consume
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healthcare
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services in general, telehealth seems to be uniquely attractive to women.
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Bob
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who exactly do you think is calling for there to be no Internet
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access? and what in the world does the sex of individuals have to do
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with shipping bits around?
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Starlink (and hopefully it's future competitors) provides a way to get
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Internet service to everyone without having to run fiber to every
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house.
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As for the parallels with rural electrification, if that problem were
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to be faced today, would the right answer be massive public agencies
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to build and run miles of wire from massive central power plants? or
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would the right answer be solar + batteries in individual houses for
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the most rural folks, with small modular reactors to power the larger
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population areas?
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Just because there was only one way to achieve a goal in the past
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doesn't mean that approach is the best thing to do today.
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David Lang
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On Fri, 15 Dec 2023, rjmcmahon wrote:
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Hi All,
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We're trying to modernize America. LBJ helped do it for electricity
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decades ago. It's our turn to step up to the plate. Tele-health and
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distance learning requires us to do so. There is so much to follow.
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A reminder what many women went through before LBJ showed up. I'm
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skeptical a patriarchy under Musk is even close to capable. We
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probably
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>>> need a woman to lead us, or at least motivate us to do our best work
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for
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>>> our country and to be an example to the world.
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>>>
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>>> A Hill Country farm wife had to do her chores even if she was ill – no
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>>> matter how ill. Because Hill Country women were too poor to afford
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proper
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>>> medical care they often suffered perineal tears in childbirth. During
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the
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>>> 1930s, the federal government sent physicians to examine a sampling of
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>>> Hill Country women. The doctors found that, out of 275 women, 158 had
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>>> perineal tears. Many of them, the team of gynecologists reported, were
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>>> third-degree tears, “tears so bad that it is difficult to see how they
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>>> stand on their feet.” But they were standing on their feet, and doing
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all
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>>> the chores that Hill Country wives had always done – hauling the
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water,
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>>> hauling the wood, canning, washing, ironing, helping with the
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shearing,
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>>> the plowing and the picking.
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>>>
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>>> Because there was no electricity.
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>>>
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>>> Bob
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>>>> On Fri, 15 Dec 2023, Sebastian Moeller via Starlink wrote:
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>>>>
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>>>>> Hi Frantisek,
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>>> On Dec 15, 2023, at 13:46, Frantisek Borsik via Nnagain
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>>>>>> <<a href="mailto:nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net">nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net</a>> wrote:
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>> Thus, technically speaking, one would like the advantages of satcom
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>>>>>> such as starlink, to be at least 5gbit/s in 10 years time, to
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overcome
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>>>>>> the 'tangled fiber' problem.
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>> No, not really. Starlink was about to address the issue of digital
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>>>>>> divide -
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>>>>>
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>>>>> I beg to differ. Starlink is a commercial enterprise with the goal
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to
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>>>>> make a profit by offering (usable) internet access essentially
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>>>>> everywhere; it is not as far as I can tell an attempt at
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specifically
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>>>>> reducing the digital divide (were often an important factor is not
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>>>>> necessarily location but financial means).
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>>>>
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>>>> Every Inernet company " commercial enterprise with the goal to make a
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>>>> profit by offering (usable) internet" don't dismiss a company because
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>>>> of that. Starlink (and the other Satellite ISPs) all exist to service
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>>>> people who can't use traditional wired infrastructure
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>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>>> delivering internet to those 640k locations, where there is
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literally
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>>>>>> none today. Fiber will NEVER get there. And it will get there, it
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will
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>>>>>> be like 10 years down the road.
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>>>>>
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>>>>> This is IHO the wrong approach to take. The goal needs to be a
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>>>>> universal FTTH access network (with the exception of extreme
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locations,
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>>>>> no need to pull fiber up to the highest Bivouac shelter on Mt.
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Whitney).
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>>>>> And f that takes a decade or two, so be it, this is infrastructure
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that
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>>>>> will keep on helping for many decades once rolled-out. However given
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>>>>> that time frame one should consider work-arounds for the interim
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period.
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>>>>> I would have naively thought starlink would qualify for that from a
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>>>>> technical perspective, but then the FCC documents actually
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discussion
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>>>>> requirements and how they were or were not met/promised by starlink
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was
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>>>>> mostly redacted.
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>>>>
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>>>> what do you consider 'extreme locations'? how long a run between
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>>>> houses is 'too far'?
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>>>>
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>>>> we've seen the failure of commercial fiber monopolies in cities with
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>>>> housing density of several houses per acre (and even where there are
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>>>> apartment complexes there as well) because it's not profitable enough.
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>>>> When you get into areas where it's 'how many acres per house' the cost
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>>>> of running FTTH gets very high. I don't think this is the majority of
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>>>> the population of the US any longer (but I don't know for sure), but
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>>>> it's very clearly the majority of the area of the US. And once you get
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>>>> out of the major metro areas, even getting fiber to every town or
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>>>> village becomes a major undertaking.
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>>>>
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>>>> Is running fiber 30 miles to support a village of 700 people an
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>>>> 'extreme location'? let me introduce you to Vermontville MI
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>>>> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermontville,_Michigan" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermontville,_Michigan</a> which is less
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>>>> than an hours drive from the state capitol.
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>>>>
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>>>> David Lang
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>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> Nnagain mailing list
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>>>> <a href="mailto:Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net">Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net</a>
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>>>> <a href="https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain</a>
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>>>
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_______________________________________________
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Nnagain mailing list
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<a href="mailto:Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net">Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net</a>
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<a href="https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain</a>
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_______________________________________________
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Nnagain mailing list
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<a href="mailto:Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net">Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net</a>
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<a href="https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain</a>
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--
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:( My old R&D campus is up for sale: <a href="https://tinyurl.com/yurtlab" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://tinyurl.com/yurtlab</a>
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Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos
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_______________________________________________
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Nnagain mailing list
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<a href="https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain</a>
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