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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>V: That’s a fascinating question on
so many fronts. The number of life-saving applications enabled by this simple
scheme I will describe below is huge (google CVRIA and you’ll get to <a
href="https://www.standards.its.dot.gov/developmentactivities/cvreference">https://www.standards.its.dot.gov/developmentactivities/cvreference</a>)
where you can spend hours or days! <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>That said, V2X (which involves V to pedestrians,
roadsides, personal devices (aka iPhones) and more) communications is
absolutely dominated (by many orders of magnitude) by the following very simple
scheme. Here-I-am messages (aka BSMs or Basic Safety Messages and their
lookalikes) are broadcast several times every second which sends to all
receivers that are in comm range, estimates of the sender’s kinematic
state and a lot of other stuff I don’t have time to go into. So the
direct answer to your question is: vehicles rarely talk directly to other
vehicles, and when that becomes necessary the vehicles know where each other
are! That, however, is not really as relevant as knowing the layer-2 (aka MAC)
addresses which also happen to be in every stream (aka every DSRC packet
transmitted OTA). And yes, local area networks in cars and roadside units can
be involved in which case layer-3 addresses (aka IP addresses) are also used. Naturally
this technology can also be used as the first/last hop in a connecting to the
internet for hundreds of other purposes, or other access technologies (google
ITS station or simply think iPhone) can be and are used! FTR, the ITS station predates
the iPhone! </span></font><font size=2 color=navy face=Wingdings><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:navy'>JJJ</span></font><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>There are hundreds of international standards
detailing exactly how this is done, and until a year ago, there were products
on the roads in the <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">US</st1:place></st1:country-region>
DOING IT! Interestingly, the EU didn’t fall for the con so they actually
have millions of units in the field and more getting deployed every day. Here
in the <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">US</st1:place></st1:country-region>,
we just seem to want to get hosed by a big corporation while the government
sits by and watches 50,000 people a year die on our roads needlessly. Stunningly,
we (the US) are currently far behind the state of play in this space that we
were in over a decade ago … yes more than 10 years and billions of
dollars have been wasted. Didn’t have to be this way, but here we are. People
needlessly die every day on the roads and that corporation’s market cap continues
to climb! We (the <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">US</st1:place></st1:country-region>)
are currently experiencing another CDMA con job (aka square peg in a round hole
with lots of IPR) and no one seems to know or care. What is wrong with this picture????
</span></font><font size=2 color=navy face=Wingdings><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:navy'>LL</span></font><font size=2
color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Again, if you (the reader) have any
interest in trying to “right this ship”, feel free to contact me!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>RR<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=3 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Vint Cerf
[mailto:<st1:PersonName w:st="on">vint@google.com</st1:PersonName>] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Saturday, March 9, 2024 3:03
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</st1:PersonName>;
Network Neutrality is back! Let´s make the technical aspects heard this time!<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Robert McMahon<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NNagain] Verizon,
T-Mobile, Nokia get noisy on network slicing and net neutrality (LightReading)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>How do you know where the vehicle is that you are talking to?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>V<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Sat, Mar 9, 2024, 17:26 Dick Roy via Nnagain <<a
href="mailto:nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net">nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'>
<div link=blue vlink=purple style='zoom:0%'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=3 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:
bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Robert McMahon [mailto:<a
href="mailto:rjmcmahon@rjmcmahon.com" target="_blank">rjmcmahon@rjmcmahon.com</a>]
<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Saturday, March 9, 2024
12:58 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <a
href="mailto:dickroy@alum.mit.edu" target="_blank">dickroy@alum.mit.edu</a>;
Dick Roy via Nnagain<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NNagain] Verizon,
T-Mobile, Nokia get noisy on network slicing and net neutrality (LightReading)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>What is DSRC?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><i><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>[RR] Don’t get me started!
</span></font></i></b><b><i><font size=2 color=navy face=Wingdings><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:navy;font-weight:bold;
font-style:italic'>LLL</span></font></i></b><b><i><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;
font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'> Very simply it is the optimal technology
for V2X comms (it is in over 11 billion devices on the planet today … aka
Wi-Fi at 5.9GHz … think 802.11a) that has been shelved here in the US
(temporarily if I have anything to say about it) in favor of an 8-year old
technology that does not work and on which a single company has a majority of
the IPR. Surprise, surprise, that company has invested 100’s of
millions of dollars to execute this con job, and unfortunately it’s
working. DSRC products were available more than 8 years ago and would have
been on the roads today (and in handsets) in large numbers saving lives, but
that wasn’t good enough for that company because they stand to get
>10x in royalty fees if and when the FCC mandates their technology.
When the general public becomes aware of this con, and fully understands the
impact, they should be and will be outraged! Think “DOWNFALL: The Case
Against Boeing” … it’s exactly the same thing …
just the names have been changed. Watch it if you haven’t already!</span></font></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><i><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>Contact me if you want more details!
I am looking for any and ALL help I can get to expose this fraud.</span></font></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><i><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>Cheers,</span></font></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><i><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>RR </span></font></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>DSRC (Dedicated
Short-Range Communications) is a wireless communication technology that enables
vehicles to communicate with each other and other road users directly, without
involving cellular or other infrastructure. DSRC is based on WiFi technology<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><a
href="https://auto-talks.com/technology/dsrc-technology/#:~:text=What%20is%20DSRC%3F,involving%20cellular%20or%20other%20infrastructure"
target="_blank">https://auto-talks.com/technology/dsrc-technology/#:~:text=What%20is%20DSRC%3F,involving%20cellular%20or%20other%20infrastructure</a>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>On Mar 9, 2024, at
12:42 PM, Dick Roy via Nnagain <<a
href="mailto:nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net" target="_blank">nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New"'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=m-9024241506805699976msoplaintext><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>…</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";color:black'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=m-9024241506805699976msoplaintext><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>As expected this technique
is designed to allow exactly what NN was designed to prohibit (treating packets
differentially in the internet based on economic considerations*)... this is
IMHO why instead of calling a spade a spade mobile carriers avoid describing
this in a useful way, as it is exactly about prioritisation... IMHO that will
back fire, and a better avenue would be to be open about what it enables and
propose a method to restrict the potential issues. E.g. (I am making this up on
the fly, so it will likely not hold up to any degree of scrutiny) by self
limiting to never commit more than X% of a cell's capacity to slicing, IFF the
cell is used for normal end user service at all. So admit that there is some
trade-off here, limit the fall-out, and then describe why we as a society
should embrace that trade-off<span style='background:yellow'>. I am a bit
sceptical about the whole car 2 car communication thing (that is cars talk to
cars, not people n cars talk to people on cars ;) ), but if a Carrier believes
there is value in that for e.g. accident avoidance, then tell how this requires
the stricter network guarantees that (only?) slicing can deliver.</span></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=m-9024241506805699976msoplaintext><b><i><font size=2 color=black
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
color:black;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>[RR] V2X communications for
saving lives will NEVER go through ANY carrier’s network in spite of what
you hear. There is simply no way anyone is going to pay to have BSMs
broadcast 10 times a second to prevent accidents, and NO CARRIER is going to
give that capacity away for free, even if they had enough to carry the traffic,
which they do not by many orders of magnitude!!! More importantly, the
information being exchanged does NOT require a network to get where it needs to
go! The 5G hype you hear from various carriers and equipment suppliers
related to V2X communications is all powerpoint BS (to make shareholders
happy). And there is a ton of it out there! </span></font></i></b><b><i><font
color=black face=Wingdings><span style='font-family:Wingdings;color:black;
font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>JJ</span></font></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><b><i><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'> </span></font></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=m-9024241506805699976msoplaintext><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>RR</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<pre style='text-align:center'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre
style='text-align:center'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre
style='text-align:center'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>
<hr size=3 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></pre><pre style='text-align:center'><font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre
style='text-align:center'><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>Nnagain mailing list<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'><a href="mailto:Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net"
target="_blank">Nnagain@lists.bufferbloat.net</a><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'><a
href="https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain" target="_blank">https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></pre></div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
Nnagain mailing list<br>
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<a href="https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain" target="_blank">https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/nnagain</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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