[Starlink] [E-impact] DataCenters in Space (was Re: fiber IXPs in space)

Thu Apr 20 07:23:52 EDT 2023

Hi Hesham,

the problem is not primarily the temperature of space, but the fact that computers tend to produce heat themselves that needs to be deposed off and vacuum makes a hell of a thermal isolator... so essentially I think you need to radiate your heat out as infrared light, no convection possible.
I am with Ulrich on this, the economics of this do not look favorable, except maybe for a few applications where being closer to the end points (or the satellites themselves) matter enormously.

Regards
	Sebastian

> On Apr 20, 2023, at 13:10, Hesham ElBakoury via Starlink <starlink at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> 
> The article about the ASCEND project says:
> "Very low ambient temperatures in space will dramatically reduce the need for cooling equipment that consumes enormous amounts of energy. A significant part of a data center’s energy use is for cooling equipment, accounting for more than 50% in some facilities. Temperatures can be as low as -292°F (-180°C) when an orbiting object is in the Earth’s shadow."
> 
> Hesham
> 
> On Wed, Apr 19, 2023, 10:44 PM Daniel Schien <Daniel.Schien at bristol.ac.uk> wrote:
> I assume any object in orbit will be hidden from the sun some of the time. So, the machines will require some pretty big battery to go up with them. 
> 
> I'd like to also know what the launch cost is. 
> 
> Tom Segert estimates in his LinkedIn post, for a 100kg satellite payload:
> 
> "TL:DR ~57 ton CO2e for a typical ESA satellite (including Ariane 6 launch), <15t CO2e for a satellite built in a factory and launched with a re-usable rocket."
> 
> Depending on the type of server that should go up there, this is a fair amount of carbon to offset from brighter sunlight.
> 
> The article also gets the carbon footprint wrong:
> 
> "Data centers are big energy consumers – between 2% and 3% of all global consumption – a rate that is doubling every year."
> 
> The latest was IEA estimating it to be around 220-320 TWh (out of 30,000) in 2021 data and growing between 10-60% over 6 years in total (so let's than 10 CAGR). But it's certainly not doubling every year. That's just completely wrong.
> 
> 
> Daniel Schien
> Senior Lecturer in Computer Science
> Department of Computer Science | University of Bristol
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> From: E-impact <e-impact-bounces at ietf.org> on behalf of Vint Cerf <vint=40google.com at dmarc.ietf.org>
> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2023 2:16:38 AM
> To: tom at evslin.com <tom at evslin.com>
> Cc: Michael Richardson <mcr at sandelman.ca>; starlink <starlink at lists.bufferbloat.net>; e-impact at ietf.org <e-impact at ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [E-impact] [Starlink] DataCenters in Space (was Re: fiber IXPs in space)
>  
> O&M will be a bear
> v
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 19, 2023 at 9:13 PM Tom Evslin via Starlink <starlink at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> I think space-based data centers will be the rule rather than the exception. Wrote about that a couple of years ago although, as usual, things have not happened as quickly as I predicted https://blog.tomevslin.com/2021/07/computing-clouds-in-orbit-a-possible-roadmap.html
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Starlink <starlink-bounces at lists.bufferbloat.net> On Behalf Of Michael Richardson via Starlink
> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2023 7:35 PM
> To: starlink <starlink at lists.bufferbloat.net>; e-impact at ietf.org
> Subject: [Starlink] DataCenters in Space (was Re: fiber IXPs in space)
> 
> 
> I saw this reported in BIS-Spaceflight.
> (I'm usually a few months behind in reading it) I like the "first objective"!
> 
> https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/worldwide/space/press-release/ascend-thales-alenia-space-lead-european-feasibility-study-data
> 
> Cannes, November 14, 2022 – Thales Alenia Space, the joint company between Thales (67%) and Leonardo (33%), has been chosen by the European Commission to lead the ASCEND (Advanced Space Cloud for European Net zero emission and Data sovereignty) feasibility study for data centers in orbit, as part of Europe’s vast Horizon Europe research program.
> 
> Digital technology’s expanding environmental footprint is becoming a major
> challenge: the burgeoning need for digitalization means that data centers in Europe and around the world are growing at an exponential pace, which in turn has a critical energy and environmental impact.
> 
> The first objective of this study will be to assess if the carbon emissions from the production and launch of these space infrastructures will be significantly lower than the emissions generated by ground-based data centers, therefore contributing to the achievement of global carbon neutrality. The second objective will be to prove that it is possible to develop the required launch solution and to ensure the deployment and operability of these spaceborne data centers using robotic assistance technologies currently being developed in Europe, such as the EROSS IOD demonstrator.
> 
> This project is expected to demonstrate to which extent space-based data centers would limit the energy and environmental impact of their ground counterparts, thus allowing major investments within the scope of Europe’s Green Deal, possibly justifying the development of a more climate-friendly, reusable heavy launch vehicle. Europe could thus regain its leadership in space transport and space logistics, as well as the assembly and operations of large infrastructures in orbit.
> 
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