[Starlink] [E-impact] DataCenters in Space (was Re: fiber IXPs in space)

Wed Apr 26 23:13:22 EDT 2023

Wow … 5.1 square kilometer of solar panels.
It is going to be really good at catching micrometeorites and small space debris.
A few small nicks won’t matter. Should we care?

The James Webb already caught a few in it’s mirror. So far it wasn’t serious.

Gene
----------------------------------------------
Eugene Chang
IEEE Communications Society & Signal Processing Society,
    Hawaii Chapter Chair
IEEE Hawaii Section, Industry Engagement Coordinator
IEEE Senior Life Member
eugene.chang at ieee.org
m 781-799-0233 (in Honolulu)

> On Apr 19, 2023, at 11:31 PM, Chris Adams via Starlink <starlink at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> 
> Hi folks,
> 
> Is there a link to the underlying assumptions in for this "data centres in space” story or the report?
> 
> The press release mentioned solar powerplants generating several hundred megawatts. That would require a massive amount of solar!
> 
> For context, this list here shows the largest solar plants in the US, as of June 2021:
> 
> https://list.solar/plants/largest-plants/solar-plants-usa/ <https://list.solar/plants/largest-plants/solar-plants-usa/>
> 
> Even the smallest one, kicking out 200 Megawatts has a surface areas of 5.1 square kilometers, and it only goes upward from there.
> 
> For this to be plausible, you’d need panels to be orders of magnitude more efficient than they are on land when in space, even before you think about how heavy it would be get multiple square kilometres of solar panel into orbit.
> 
> C
> 
> 
> 
> Chris Adams
> 
> Executive Director
> 
> w: thegreenwebfoundation.org
> e: chris at thegreenwebfoundation.org
> t: @mrchrisadams
> 
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> Chris Adams
> 
> Executive Director
> 
> w: thegreenwebfoundation.org
> e: chris at thegreenwebfoundation.org
> t: @mrchrisadams
> 
> German Office
> Naunynstrasse 40
> 10999 Berlin
> Germany
> 
> See our contact page for more details
> https://www.thegreenwebfoundation.org/contact/ <https://www.thegreenwebfoundation.org/contact/>
> 
> Book a short call with me to discuss something.
> https://cal.com/mrchrisadams <https://cal.com/mrchrisadams>
> 
> 
>> On 20. Apr 2023, at 07:43, Daniel Schien <Daniel.Schien at bristol.ac.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> I assume any object in orbit will be hidden from the sun some of the time. So, the machines will require some pretty big battery to go up with them.
>> 
>> I'd like to also know what the launch cost is.
>> 
>> Tom Segert estimates in his LinkedIn post, for a 100kg satellite payload:
>> 
>> "TL:DR ~57 ton CO2e for a typical ESA satellite (including Ariane 6 launch), <15t CO2e for a satellite built in a factory and launched with a re-usable rocket."
>> 
>> Depending on the type of server that should go up there, this is a fair amount of carbon to offset from brighter sunlight.
>> 
>> The article also gets the carbon footprint wrong:
>> 
>> "Data centers are big energy consumers – between 2% and 3% of all global consumption – a rate that is doubling every year."
>> 
>> The latest was IEA estimating it to be around 220-320 TWh (out of 30,000) in 2021 data and growing between 10-60% over 6 years in total (so let's than 10 CAGR). But it's certainly not doubling every year. That's just completely wrong.
>> 
>> 
>> Daniel Schien
>> Senior Lecturer in Computer Science
>> Department of Computer Science | University of Bristol
>> Submit software engineering project ideas for 2022
>> 
>> bris.ac.uk/software-engineering <>
>> Watch: https://youtu.be/lU-ZsBDFWDI <https://youtu.be/lU-ZsBDFWDI>
>> 
>> Merchant Venturers Building , Woodland Rd Bristol, BS8 1UB
>> Book a meeting: https://outlook.office365.com/owa/calendar/OfficeHours@bristol.ac.uk/booki <https://outlook.office365.com/owa/calendar/OfficeHours@bristol.ac.uk/bookings/>
>> From: E-impact <e-impact-bounces at ietf.org> on behalf of Vint Cerf <vint=40google.com at dmarc.ietf.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2023 2:16:38 AM
>> To: tom at evslin.com <tom at evslin.com>
>> Cc: Michael Richardson <mcr at sandelman.ca>; starlink <starlink at lists.bufferbloat.net>; e-impact at ietf.org <e-impact at ietf.org>
>> Subject: Re: [E-impact] [Starlink] DataCenters in Space (was Re: fiber IXPs in space)
>> 
>> O&M will be a bear
>> v
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Apr 19, 2023 at 9:13 PM Tom Evslin via Starlink <starlink at lists.bufferbloat.net <mailto:starlink at lists.bufferbloat.net>> wrote:
>> I think space-based data centers will be the rule rather than the exception. Wrote about that a couple of years ago although, as usual, things have not happened as quickly as I predicted https://blog.tomevslin.com/2021/07/computing-clouds-in-orbit-a-possible-roadmap.html <https://blog.tomevslin.com/2021/07/computing-clouds-in-orbit-a-possible-roadmap.html>
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Starlink <starlink-bounces at lists.bufferbloat.net <mailto:starlink-bounces at lists.bufferbloat.net>> On Behalf Of Michael Richardson via Starlink
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2023 7:35 PM
>> To: starlink <starlink at lists.bufferbloat.net <mailto:starlink at lists.bufferbloat.net>>; e-impact at ietf.org <mailto:e-impact at ietf.org>
>> Subject: [Starlink] DataCenters in Space (was Re: fiber IXPs in space)
>> 
>> 
>> I saw this reported in BIS-Spaceflight.
>> (I'm usually a few months behind in reading it) I like the "first objective"!
>> 
>> https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/worldwide/space/press-release/ascend-thales-alenia-space-lead-european-feasibility-study-data <https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/worldwide/space/press-release/ascend-thales-alenia-space-lead-european-feasibility-study-data>
>> 
>> Cannes, November 14, 2022 – Thales Alenia Space, the joint company between Thales (67%) and Leonardo (33%), has been chosen by the European Commission to lead the ASCEND (Advanced Space Cloud for European Net zero emission and Data sovereignty) feasibility study for data centers in orbit, as part of Europe’s vast Horizon Europe research program.
>> 
>> Digital technology’s expanding environmental footprint is becoming a major
>> challenge: the burgeoning need for digitalization means that data centers in Europe and around the world are growing at an exponential pace, which in turn has a critical energy and environmental impact.
>> 
>> The first objective of this study will be to assess if the carbon emissions from the production and launch of these space infrastructures will be significantly lower than the emissions generated by ground-based data centers, therefore contributing to the achievement of global carbon neutrality. The second objective will be to prove that it is possible to develop the required launch solution and to ensure the deployment and operability of these spaceborne data centers using robotic assistance technologies currently being developed in Europe, such as the EROSS IOD demonstrator.
>> 
>> This project is expected to demonstrate to which extent space-based data centers would limit the energy and environmental impact of their ground counterparts, thus allowing major investments within the scope of Europe’s Green Deal, possibly justifying the development of a more climate-friendly, reusable heavy launch vehicle. Europe could thus regain its leadership in space transport and space logistics, as well as the assembly and operations of large infrastructures in orbit.
>> 
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