[Starlink] Debugging connection through Starlink (POINTR)

Sauli Kiviranta smksauli at gmail.com
Tue Feb 28 09:41:44 EST 2023 

Thank Ulrich you for the great overview on difficulty of reproducing the issue!

"Basically, you could be comparing apples and pears here."

This seems to be the case, there was nothing indicative of overall
system issues based on the test call. For the Dishy location and
potential obstructions, I have requested more detailed information
about the exact location based on your feedback. The use case was
forestry, so it is likely that there was sub-optimal surroundings.
Weather conditions were good based on the users comments. The number
of users is most likely not issue here given the use-case. The
routing, backhaul and BW unfortunately I was not able to record. Any
recommendations here if I actually get a change to run some tests by
the user for termination or other details that could help figuring out
what went wrong beyond traceroute? I was initially sure it must have
been issue on our side, that the traffic got blocked. If I get the
test location, I will try see if anything can be derived from that.

Based on your location in NZ you should be among the best tests in
terms of worst possible location in relation to our infra for delays.
Do you mind running POINTR network analysis and see what kind of
results you get? We did some tests with mining industry in Australia
with sat but it is already few years ago not Starlink. Even better if
you have two devices, register them then call to yourself so both
endpoints go through the Starlink to see if everything or anything
works and what type of delays you experience (double trouble!).

Best regards,
Sauli


On 28/02/2023, Ulrich Speidel via Starlink
<starlink at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> I think you may find this difficult to reproduce unless you actually go
> and see your customer.
>
> Starlink isn't the same as Starlink. How it works depends on:
>
>   * Where your dishy is and where the closest gateway(s) is/are. This
>     determines the number of options that the system has to route
>     between you and the gateway. The closer, the more options,
>     generally, as the number of sats that both you and the gateway can
>     see decreases, as a rule of thumb, with distance between you and
>     gateway.
>   * Where you are also matters. Satellite density is highest at 53 deg
>     north and 53 deg south. Starlink units between these parallels will
>     look in the direction of their hemisphere when looking for a
>     satellite. Units at higher latitudes ... well someone tell me where
>     they look!
>   * How many other Starlink users there are (a) in your cell and (b) in
>     the neighbourhood of your cell. This determines the share of
>     capacity you'll get off the system. The fewer competing users, the
>     better.
>   * What sort of backhaul the gateway is on. I only see IPv4 here in NZ
>     but some folk are on IPv6, and I guess the backhaul network beyond
>     Starlink's control also matters in terms of bufferbloat etc.
>   * Weather
>   * Obstructions (Starlink can works pretty well with a moderate degree
>     of obstruction, but obviously, as stated above, the more options the
>     system has...)
>   * Available bandwidth (did Starlink get all the frequencies that it
>     would have wanted at your customer's site or just some?) - that's a
>     regulatory issue.
>
> Basically, you could be comparing apples and pears here.
>
> On 1/03/2023 12:53 am, Sauli Kiviranta via Starlink wrote:
>> Thank you for the testing so far!
>>
>> Special thanks to Nathan for the test call yesterday, looks like
>> everything works. I was shocked how good the Starlink performed, I was
>> in disbelief how well it worked since on my side I was also on 4G and
>> the performance was spectacular. Not the usual
>> 8000km-and-sat-inbetween feeling.
>>
>> So far we have not been able to reproduce the errors, if the call is
>> initiated from US it will route through the local infra. So this could
>> be one issue, if someone wants to make another test call we can route
>> it through EU.
>>
>> Anyone in Canada capable of making a test? Even to just run the
>> network analysis.
>>
>> I will meanwhile have to point the finger at the customer if there are
>> no signs of failure in any of the tests, I hate that. Fixing a juicy
>> bug is better than having configuration when things just fail "without
>> reason".
>>
>> I can also provide additional test tools if someone is interested in
>> more bolts and nuts testing. Send me an email with platform preference
>> and I will share the test kit.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Sauli
>>
>>
>> On 27/02/2023, starlink-request at lists.bufferbloat.net
>> <starlink-request at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
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>> > Today's Topics:
>> >
>> > 1. Debugging connection through Starlink (POINTR) (Sauli Kiviranta)
>> >
>> >
>> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 1
>> > Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2023 10:58:53 +0200
>> > From: Sauli Kiviranta <smksauli at gmail.com>
>> > To: starlink at lists.bufferbloat.net
>> > Subject: [Starlink] Debugging connection through Starlink (POINTR)
>> > Message-ID:
>> > <CAJbqEYCDQOqqfpt4=gEpGV37URRh2UvGLjKV1XEpNPm1bxMu3Q at mail.gmail.com>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> >
>> > Dear Starlink users,
>> >
>> > I have a request for help on debugging a customer issue. We have users
>> > in Canada who are using our industrial remote collaboration tool
>> > POINTR (www.pointr.com
>> <http://www.pointr.com>)
>> and have issues connecting through Starlink
>> > (Standard HTTPS). We cannot reproduce their case as we have no
>> > Starlink at our disposal.
>> >
>> > If you would be kind enough to download POINTR (either from the app
>> > stores or from our website: https://www.pointr.com/downloads/
>> <https://www.pointr.com/downloads>).
>> The
>> > app itself follows standard SMS validation loop, if this is an issue I
>> > can provide you with virtual number with email validation.
>> >
>> > Problem 1: Can you connect to the servers?
>> > - Once you try to complete registration loop, you should get an error
>> > that you are offline indicative that servers cannot be reached (AWS,
>> > Ireland/US/Brazil/Japan).
>> >
>> > Problem 2: What is the perceived network quality within the app?
>> > - Considering the outlined server distribution, if you run the network
>> > analysis, can you take a screenshot and share it? (Example attached).
>> >
>> > Problem 3: What is the call quality between your devices?
>> > - If you can run network analysis, can you register another device of
>> > yours (same mobile number is ok) and call between your own devices to
>> > test how the video streaming goes through and what type of delay you
>> > experience? I will be also available for test calls if you want to
>> > establish a call between your location and Finland: +358 40 357 3272
>> > (group calls up to 7 users).
>> >
>> > Additionally any technical feedback on the behavior will be
>> > appreciated specially if you experience issues.
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> > Sauli Kiviranta
>> >
>> > www.deltacygnilabs.com
>> <http://www.deltacygnilabs.com>
>> >
>> > Downloads:
>> >
>> > Android:
>> >
>> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.DeltaCygniLabs.Pointr
>> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.DeltaCygniLabs.Pointr>
>> > APK:
>> > https://www.pointr.com/downloads/#pointr-android
>> <https://www.pointr.com/downloads/#pointr-android>
>> >
>> > iOS:
>> >
>> https://apps.apple.com/us/app/pointr-easy-remote-support/id1073131903
>> <https://apps.apple.com/us/app/pointr-easy-remote-support/id1073131903>
>> >
>> > UWP:
>> >
>> https://apps.microsoft.com/store/detail/pointr-easy-remote-support/9NBLGGH52R41
>>
>> <https://apps.microsoft.com/store/detail/pointr-easy-remote-support/9NBLGGH52R41>
>> >
>> > Windows:
>> > https://www.pointr.com/downloads/#pointr-windows
>> <https://www.pointr.com/downloads/#pointr-windows>
>> > -------------- next part --------------
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>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > Subject: Digest Footer
>> >
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>> > ------------------------------
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>> > End of Starlink Digest, Vol 23, Issue 26
>> > ****************************************
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>
> --
> ****************************************************************
> Dr. Ulrich Speidel
>
> School of Computer Science
>
> Room 303S.594 (City Campus)
>
> The University of Auckland
> u.speidel at auckland.ac.nz
> http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/
> ****************************************************************
>
>
>

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