[Starlink] Time Synchronization in Satellite Networks
Hesham ElBakoury
helbakoury at gmail.com
Sat Mar 2 12:26:18 EST 2024
But how you address the issues I mentioned before such propagation delay,
clock drifting, and signal degradation, ...
Hesham
On Sat, Mar 2, 2024, 9:18 AM Alexandre Petrescu via Starlink <
starlink at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> some of the question is to what level of precision one wants the time to
> be maintained synchronized between entities, and for what application?
> Nano-second precision? Less? More is acceptable? For what kind of
> application? (I will not give examples).
>
> I think links with hundred ms latency range and NTP can easily maintain
> nano-second synch'ed precision, from experience with ground links.
>
>
> Le 02/03/2024 à 18:01, Alexandre Petrescu via Starlink a écrit :
> >
> > Le 02/03/2024 à 16:38, Christian von der Ropp via Starlink a écrit :
> >> Why not acquire the time directly from by the satellite terminal and
> >> run local NTP servers instead of syncing via the Internet?
> >
> > Certainly it is possible to run ntpd servers and clients on satellites
> > and maintain synchronized times. I would be surprised if some of them
> > dont already do that.
> >
> > The performance characteristics of some links between some satellites
> > are not very different than links here on ground where NTP is run
> > routinely.
> >
> > NTP was designed and tested at a time when ground links had inferior
> > perf. characteristics than many satcom links of recent years.
> >
> > Alex
> >
> >
> >> LEO satellite terminals always have onboard GNSS antennas for
> >> geolocation which is necessary to find the satellites, so integrating
> >> a local GNSS-disciplined Stratum-1 NTP server seems trivial to me.
> >>
> >>
> >> Am 2. März 2024 17:25:59 OEZ schrieb Hesham ElBakoury via Starlink
> >> <starlink at lists.bufferbloat.net>:
> >>
> >> Hi Sebastian,
> >> Can we still use PTP and NTP for time synchronization in
> >> Satellite networks or we need new protocols? If we need new
> >> protocols, do such protocols exist?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> Hesham
> >>
> >> On Sat, Mar 2, 2024, 7:18 AM Sebastian Moeller <moeller0 at gmx.de>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Hesham
> >>
> >> > On 2. Mar 2024, at 16:03, Hesham ElBakoury via Starlink
> >> <starlink at lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Time synchronization, for satellite networks, faces several
> >> challenges:
> >> > 1. Signal Propagation Delays: Unlike terrestrial networks
> >> where signals travel through cables at the speed of light,
> >>
> >> [SM] The speed of light in your typical glas fibers (and
> >> accidentally the information propagation speed in metallic
> >> conductors) comes in roughly at 2/3 of the speed of light in
> >> vacuum, while the speed of light in air at see level is a mere
> >> 90 KM/s slower than in vacuum.
> >>
> >> > satellite communication involves signals traveling vast
> >> distances through space. This creates significant delays.
> >>
> >> [SM] Sure distances might be larger, but propagation speed is
> >> around 100000Km/s faster... my main point is speed of light is
> >> a) dependent on the medium b) not the things that
> >> differentiates space from the earth's surface here, but mere
> >> geometry and larger distances on larger spheres...
> >>
> >> > 2. Clock Drift: Even highly precise atomic clocks, used in
> >> satellites, are susceptible to "drift" - gradually losing or
> >> gaining time. This drift, caused by factors like temperature
> >> variations, radiation exposure, and power fluctuations, can
> >> lead to inconsistencies in timekeeping across the network.
> >> > 3. Signal Degradation: As signals travel through space, they
> >> can degrade due to factors like atmospheric interference,
> >> ionospheric disturbances, and solar activity. This degradation
> >> can introduce noise and errors, impacting the accuracy of time
> >> synchronization messages.
> >> > 4. Limited Resources: Satellites have limited power and
> >> processing capabilities. Implementing complex synchronization
> >> protocols can be resource-intensive, requiring careful
> >> optimization to minimize their impact on other functionalities.
> >> > 5. Evolving Technologies: As satellite technologies and
> >> applications continue to evolve, new challenges related to
> >> synchronization might emerge. For example, the integration of
> >> constellations with thousands of satellites poses unique
> >> synchronization challenges due to the sheer scale and
> >> complexity of the network.
> >> > These challenges necessitate the development of robust and
> >> efficient time synchronization protocols for satellite
> >> networks and an integrated satellite and terrestrial networks
> >> > Are you aware of such time synchronization protocols?
> >> > I would think that using Satellite simulators is the most
> >> viable way to develop and test these protocols given that
> >> using satellites is not that easy.
> >> > Thanks
> >> > Hesham
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
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> >> --
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> >> gesendet.
> >>
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