<html xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)">
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"MS Mincho";
panose-1:2 2 6 9 4 2 5 8 3 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"\@MS Mincho";
panose-1:0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p.MsoPlainText, li.MsoPlainText, div.MsoPlainText
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 77.95pt 1.0in 77.95pt;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
</head>
<body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Starlink [mailto:starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net] On Behalf Of Mikael
Abrahamsson<br>
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2021 11:33 AM<br>
To: Dave Taht<br>
Cc: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net<br>
Subject: Re: [Starlink] 69,000 Users</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>On Wed, 30 Jun 2021, Dave Taht wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>> I don’t think data caps are needed. fairness is needed.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><b><i><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>[RR] Engineers
always think fairness is “needed”. Corporate managers who
make the real decisions couldn’t care less about “fairness”. It’s
all about income – expenditures which is simply PROFIT! When fair
becomes profitable, you’ll see it. Until then,dream on.<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></b></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>LTE has pretty good airtime fairness (but FIFO per customer). Still <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>doesn't work very well when there isn't enough airtime to satisfy
demand.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><b><i><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>[RR] There
will NEVER be enough supply (of information carrying capacity in the network)
to meet demand all the time. The reason is simple, until the supply is
exhausted, there’s gold in them thar hills and the carriers are not going
to leave it there. They will fill their pipes until they burst, knowing
that there is little if anything their customers will do about it until their
pain threshold is exceed, and they spend a helluva lot of money on psychologists
to let them know where that breaking point is and they aim to get there ASAP. Why??
PROFIT and MARKET CAP! Business 101! </span></font></i></b><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>> I would prefer a solution that just billed for usage over a
minimum.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>Well, data caps is similar to this. People generally don't like to get <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>billed automatically upon higher usage, thus data caps can be used and <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>people will have to go to some self-service page and "pay
more" if they're <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>over the cap, to get a higher cap.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><b><i><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>[RR] The
people in charge at the carriers hate caps … they want customers unknowingly
pouring cash into their coffers. CAPs came about when consumers complained to
the regulators, not one day before! CAPs are nothing more than a compromise that
forces the carriers to let their customers know when they are about to get sc___d.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></b></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><b><i><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></i></b></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><b><i><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>All
communication networks ultimately reach an “uncomfortable equilibrium”
where all parties are unhappy, but not unhappy enough to quit the game. <o:p></o:p></span></font></i></b></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><b><i><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></i></b></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><b><i><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>Thinking
that there is some technical means by which 1Gbps can be shoved through a pipe whose
maximum possible throughput is only a fraction of that data rate is misguided
thinking. More importantly, fairness is in the “eye of the beholder”.
One man’s fairness is another man’s inequity. The point is that any
algorithm for handling packets in a congested/overloaded network at best will
satisfy those that run the networks and not disappoint their customers “too
much”. It’s bloody obvious that finding the algorithm or algorithms
that achieve these two goals is the only path to success.<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></b></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><b><i><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></i></b></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><b><i><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black;font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>RR </span></font></i></b><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>-- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>