<html><head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
</head>
<body>
<p>Always interesting to hear how dishy actually behaves - which may
depend a bit on where you are. In the conventional service areas,
there are generally multiple gateways, so there's probably no
benefit in probing east or west, you'll just need to find north or
south and the right elevation. But that wouldn't be the case where
all satellites with gateway connectivity are relatively far to the
west of you.<br>
</p>
<p>FAIK FINTEL's Suva facility hasn't been affected (only outlying
islands in Fiji have been hit by tsunami with damage resulting,
and it's been largely minor).</p>
<p>However, the FINTEL teleport you see on Google maps isn't
Starlink capable, and it's not a given that it would be available
as a site either, although there seems to be land around it that
could be used I suppose. <br>
</p>
<p>Starlink teleports look a bit like an egg carton from the air,
with typically 6 to 9 radome "eggs" in them, and these would have
to be installed there first. This is the closest known one to
Tonga at present:</p>
<p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://goo.gl/maps/5Risyqk9tC2QDJwB8">https://goo.gl/maps/5Risyqk9tC2QDJwB8</a></p>
<p>(Yes, as irony would have it, on the back paddock of an egg farm
;-))</p>
<p>As I said in a previous post: As attractive as the geometry with
a lower elevation might look, it carries with it the price of
serious link deterioration, especially in an area like this where
rain fade is common. Satellite link budgets tend to be designed
with small fade margins because every extra dB adds to cost in a
significant way, and by having both a longer path and more of it
running the gauntlet through the atmosphere, unusual setups like
this one are usually a bit hard to do in practice.<br>
</p>
<p>Moreover, news just in minutes ago from Tonga Cable:</p>
<p>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="EN-US">Reliance still out there during this bad
weather (as they’re behind schedule) trying to recover the
part of the cable from Suva….</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US" lang="en-TO"><br>
</span></p>
</blockquote>
The Tongan end of the cable has been found and secured. Cable is
presumed to be broken in multiple places, though, so they'll
probably have to lay a stretch of new cable. I'd expect them to
find the Suva end within the next day or so, weather permitting,
and then it'll be mostly a matter of whether they can put the
cable back where it was. If not, it could take a little longer,
but I'm optimistic that connectivity will be restored within the
week.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/02/2022 11:29 am, Mike Puchol
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:5d9dab2c-3c20-4d18-aa1d-cc72bf250843@Spark">
<title></title>
<div name="messageBodySection">
<div dir="auto">You are right in your comments, however - Dishy
does not currently shift in azimuth, only in elevation in the
North/South axis, in essence, to focus its boresight towards
the area of the sky where it will see most viable satellites.
If you play around with Tonga (Fiji emergency gateway is live
on the site, plus a couple of fixes that returned negative
azimuths!), you will see that North/South tilt has no real
effect, but if you shift azimuth towards Fiji (from Tonga)
your candidate satellites increase. You can also see the
effect of 15º minimum elevation, which suddenly make
satellites on NZ gateways available to a Tonga terminal too.<br>
<br>
As far as placing a gateway in Fiji, it already has a teleport
facility, which will have power and fibre (unless that one has
been taken out too?). Check <a href="https://goo.gl/maps/6BYXf4R17yys7zNe9" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://goo.gl/maps/6BYXf4R17yys7zNe9</a><br>
<br>
In terms of plain service, it’s true the GSO operators have
stepped in, and for actual emergencies, it’s sufficient.
Starlink can start supplementing that with more fibre-like
backhaul which would enable those additional services you
mention.</div>
</div>
<div name="messageSignatureSection"><br>
<div class="matchFont">Best,<br>
<br>
Mike</div>
</div>
<div name="messageReplySection">On Feb 7, 2022, 23:23 +0100,
Ulrich Speidel <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ulrich@cs.auckland.ac.nz"><ulrich@cs.auckland.ac.nz></a>, wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" style="border-left-color: grey;
border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid; margin: 5px
5px;padding-left: 10px;">
<p>Nice tracker, Mike!<br>
</p>
<p>That said: It's not just a matter of geometry though.
Presuming that a dishy aims itself at whichever portion of
the sky it seems most satellites (with gateway service),
there's another aspect to the elevation angle. The lower
your elevation, the longer the path that the signal has to
take through the atmosphere, and the higher the degree of
service disruption as a result of rain fade, or in Tonga's
case, potential ash cloud fading. In Fiji's case, Starlink
also has to find a site with low elevation take-off to Tonga
AND fibre connectivity. Plus they have to get past the
regulator in a country that's know to regulate heavily and
that currently experiences a lot of Covid-related disruption
with people in badly connected home office.<br>
</p>
<p>Note that Tonga has had emergency service for a while now:
Intelsat, SES and Kacific are all at present providing
service (Kacific at 1 Gbps even). That's plenty for
emergency use.</p>
<p>The big sticky point is that mobile Internet isn't working,
people have to go to Tonga Telecom offices for access or
wifi. That's an issue because 4 out of 5 households in Tonga
rely on remittances from family overseas, which are usually
sent via Western Union. Moneygram etc., whose apps are out
of action right now.</p>
<p>And yes, the date line is fun. Pacific countries are known
for having shifted it back and forth for spurious reasons,
which is why it's badly bent, and these days I'm still
grateful if people have maps online that don't end at the
date line ;-)<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/02/2022 10:36 am, Mike
Puchol wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:8ecdc077-1751-4302-a013-fa35b2291a87@Spark">
<div name="messageBodySection">
<div dir="auto">Placing a gateway at the Fiji teleport
results in satellites that cover Tonga being serviced.
However, satellite density, but most importantly, GSO
protection, take out a significant portion of the
coverage from the satellites.<br>
<br>
They would need to lower minimum elevation (now 25°
everywhere) to improve the situation. With things as-is,
Tonga would be covered by 1-2 satellites which should be
enough for emergency service restoration.<br>
<br>
You can play around with this on my tracker at <a href="https://starink.sx" moz-do-not-send="true">https://starink.sx</a>, I will
be adding the temporary gateway in a few minutes.<br>
<br>
Please not that the date line causes some weird issues
with the map and the algorithms, which I’m still trying
to fix. You can thank whoever thought moving from -180°
to +180° across a line was a good idea.</div>
</div>
<div name="messageSignatureSection"><br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Mike</div>
<div name="messageReplySection">On Feb 7, 2022, 22:24 +0100,
David Lang <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:david@lang.hm" moz-do-not-send="true"><david@lang.hm></a>,
wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" style="border-left-color: grey;
border-left-width: thin; border-left-style: solid;
margin: 5px 5px;padding-left: 10px;">the dish aimes at
where it sees the most satellites, not necessarily 53. I
took<br>
my dish to a campground where there were trees to the
north and it ended up<br>
pointing straight up (Los Angeles area) performance was
fine.<br>
<br>
when you power it on, the dish tilts and swivels to
point straight up (no idea<br>
what the angle logic is), and after a few min of
watching the sky will re-aim<br>
itself if/as needed.<br>
<br>
David Lang<br>
<br>
On Mon, 7 Feb 2022, Ben Greear wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2022 13:18:49
-0800<br>
From: Ben Greear <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:greearb@candelatech.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><greearb@candelatech.com></a><br>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated
moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net" moz-do-not-send="true">starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink for Tonga?<br>
<br>
90 or even much smaller percentage is a lot better
than zero.<br>
<br>
I wonder if they can point the dish towards the
horizon to pick up the sat<br>
where<br>
it can best see the functional downlink. I realize the
dish auto-points<br>
itself<br>
now, but surely engineers that can design that can
also design an 'off'<br>
switch<br>
for that and let their on-the-ground folks do some
hacking....<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Ben<br>
<br>
On 2/7/22 11:05 AM, Christian von der Ropp wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">But in practice the satellites
won't be sitting and waiting at the edge of<br>
</blockquote>
this 940km radius. They are moving in and out the
radius and the question is<br>
if<br>
<blockquote type="cite">satellite density is high
enough so that once the serving satellite loses<br>
</blockquote>
its gateway link there's another satellite in the
940km radius which also<br>
covers<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Tonga. And then this new
satellite cannot be within certain elevation<br>
</blockquote>
angles (~60-80° at 0° azimuth) where the geostationary
arc crosses Fijian<br>
skies and the<br>
<blockquote type="cite">gateway antennas have to seize
emission. My gut feeling is that<br>
</blockquote>
availability in Tonga would be <90% simply because
it's too far out at the<br>
edge of a Fijian<br>
<blockquote type="cite">gateway's range where there
will be frequent service interruptions.<br>
<br>
<br>
Am 07.02.2022 um 19:51 schrieb Nathan Owens:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">The current coverage radius
of a gateway/ground station with a 25 degree<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
minimum elevation is ~940km, so nothing in theory.<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 10:50 AM Daniel AJ Sokolov
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:daniel@sokolov.eu.org" moz-do-not-send="true"><daniel@sokolov.eu.org></a><br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
Hello,<br>
<br>
I hope this is not offtopic: Starlink wants to
build a ground station<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
on<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Fiji to supply Tonga with
internet.<br>
<br>
The distance between Tonga and Fiji is about 750
km minimum. That's<br>
quite the distance.<br>
<br>
What does Starlink have to do to make this work?<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
Daniel<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Starlink mailing list<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated
moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net" moz-do-not-send="true">Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink</a><br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Starlink mailing list<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated
moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net" moz-do-not-send="true">Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink</a><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Starlink mailing list<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated
moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net" moz-do-not-send="true">Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
_______________________________________________<br>
Starlink mailing list<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated
moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net" moz-do-not-send="true">Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Starlink mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net" moz-do-not-send="true">Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
****************************************************************
Dr. Ulrich Speidel
School of Computer Science
Room 303S.594 (City Campus)
Ph: (+64-9)-373-7599 ext. 85282
The University of Auckland
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ulrich@cs.auckland.ac.nz" moz-do-not-send="true">ulrich@cs.auckland.ac.nz</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/</a>
****************************************************************
</pre>
_______________________________________________<br>
Starlink mailing list<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net">Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
****************************************************************
Dr. Ulrich Speidel
School of Computer Science
Room 303S.594 (City Campus)
Ph: (+64-9)-373-7599 ext. 85282
The University of Auckland
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ulrich@cs.auckland.ac.nz">ulrich@cs.auckland.ac.nz</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/">http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/</a>
****************************************************************
</pre>
</body>
</html>