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<p>Got you there David, and didn't really mean your contribution in
the whole situation. As you point out, anything in comms in
inherently dual use.</p>
<p>And I think we do have a duty to warn if we see that technology
that's out there might become a risk to those who choose to use
it.</p>
<p>In terms of Starlink - I really think that it's a red herring, at
least for now. As I said, if Starlink can't muster anywhere near
enough satellite capacity to serve all of a small town in Montana
that's surrounded by gateways close by, then it's not going to be
replacing the Internet as we know it in a country 60% larger in
area and 40 x larger in population. At best it might be able to
provide some backup in a relatively small number of places.<br>
</p>
<p>Another perspective yet: So far, international experience shows
that the Internet is remarkably robust when it comes to powers
that be wanting to shut it down. It's designed to route around
holes and cuts. Unless you depend on a small number of
identifiable fibre cables out, like Tonga does, it's pretty
difficult to cut you off completely. I very much doubt that anyone
has a complete may of fibre routes in the Ukraine, let alone the
Russians. There'll probably be people out there near the borders
to Romania, Slovakia, Hungary and Poland - and probably even to
Russia - stringing clandestine fibre cables across in order to add
resilience to their networks. There'll also be countless people
within Ukraine's border regions who have mobile connectivity into
their neighbouring countries that can be put to good use
transparently. We're talking about a pretty tech-savvy population
here... Add wi-fi and a large number of satellite TV dishes into
the mix, and you'll get my drift.</p>
<p>But even so, Russia doesn't seem to be making much of an effort
to disrupt the Internet in Ukraine, at least not just yet. Why?
Maybe because the assumption that the Internet works against them
isn't true from their perspective. Say you're in Kyiv. Hearing on
the grapevine that Kherson has fallen to the Russians may be one
thing, easily dismissed as war propaganda. Actually seeing
pictures from the city and getting the local perspective from
people you know is far more likely to make you think that your own
resistance may be futile. It all feeds into the hype and panic,
and creates a fertile ground for misinformation and fake news,
while giving a perfect platform for Russia to communicate with its
own units in the field. I wouldn't be at all surprised if a lot of
them used Ukranian SIM cards on their phones. I know there's
already been a drive among Ukrainian mobile operators to get
people to report captured phones so they can be deactivated.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/03/2022 9:41 pm, David Lang wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:3ooo342q-s937-qq3-492q-723np793qoo@ynat.uz">
There isn't a method of communication (or for that matter, any
other tool that <br>
I'm aware of) that _can't_ be put to some military use (including
the arts)<br>
<br>
If you want to make sure that an invention can never be used for
military <br>
purposes, the only way to prevent it is to not invent it (and hope
nobody else <br>
does), otherwise the best you can do is to give your favored users
a head start.<br>
<br>
So if being quite about a technology isn't going to stop bad guys
from (ab)using <br>
it, then the answer is to get the info out there so that the good
guys will know <br>
how to use it.<br>
<br>
This discussion started with me providing an alternate view to one
of the news <br>
articles that are circulating that say that using a starlink in
Ukrane is <br>
painting yourself to be a target. I may be wrong (I've been wrong
before, I will <br>
be wrong again), but I think it's a topic worth discussion in the
open, not just <br>
in military circles.<br>
<br>
<br>
getting off my soapbox for a couple paragraphs<br>
<br>
<br>
As for Starlink, since it doesn't require local infrastructure,
it's going to be <br>
used by those who are opposed to those who are controlling said
infrastructure, <br>
and the only way those controlling the infrastructure can actually
prevent it <br>
(other than by making people too afraid to use it, which does not
have a track <br>
record of long-term success) is to attack the starlink
infrastructure (via <br>
cyber, kinetic, or legal means)<br>
<br>
In the case of Ukraine, this is very unlikely to happen at any
significant <br>
scale. However in other cases, the last couple of years makes it
all too likely <br>
to happen.<br>
<br>
<br>
and back on my soapbox<br>
<br>
In my opinion, this is why we need multiple such satellite
networks, controlled <br>
by different countries. The last century has shown us that no
matter how much <br>
they try, the powers that be cannot completely cut off all the
communication if <br>
the people wanting to communicate are determined enough. But in
the process of <br>
trying, they will hurt a LOT of innocent people<br>
<br>
David Lang<br>
<br>
On Fri, 4 Mar 2022, Mike Puchol wrote:<br>
<br>
> Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2022 10:00:03 +0300<br>
> From: Mike Puchol <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mike@starlink.sx"><mike@starlink.sx></a><br>
> To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net">starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net</a>, Ulrich Speidel
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz"><u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz></a><br>
> Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink Digest, Vol 12, Issue 6<br>
> <br>
> IMHO unless we are addressing actual weapons, we are in murky
waters. Take toilet paper. It is an element of Molotov cocktails,
does it become classified as a weapon? Or in fact, anything that
can aid one of the sides in their fight, including food and
medical supplies.<br>
><br>
> Our WISP in Kenya gets asked, very often, “why do you provide
internet in slums, don’t they need like, food, clean water,
healtcare, before internet?”.<br>
><br>
> The answer to that is two-pronged. First, we are good at
“doing internet”, in a way cost-effective enough that our business
actually employs hundreds of Kenyans, many from these slums, and
provides unlimited broadband internet to underprivileged
communities at affordable prices. We don’t know how to “do" clean
water or healthcare, so we try to make an impact with what we
know.<br>
><br>
> Secondly, the Human Rights Council of the UN produced, in
2011, a report, which stated:<br>
><br>
> "The Special Rapporteur underscores the unique and
transformative nature of the Internet not only to enable
individuals to exercise their right to freedom of opinion and
expression, but also a range of other human rights, and to promote
the progress of society as a whole”.<br>
><br>
> Many news outlets picked on this to conclude “The UN declares
internet a basic human right” - which is not what the report says
(full text here: <a href="https://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/docs/17session/A.HRC.17.27_en.pdf)" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/docs/17session/A.HRC.17.27_en.pdf)</a>.
What it does say is it can enable the right to freedom of opinion
and expression, something which Russia is trying to shut down,
both in Ukraine and in Russia itself, applying sanctions to those
who disseminate “non-official” information.<br>
><br>
> Thus, my personal view is that a few Starlink terminals that
can restore connectivity to areas where it has been limited, have
benefits that outweigh the possibility that they get used for
military comms or such.<br>
><br>
> Best,<br>
><br>
> Mike<br>
> On Mar 4, 2022, 08:06 +0300, Ulrich Speidel
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz"><u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz></a>, wrote:<br>
>> Kia ora David! I'd personally grieve if anyone came to
harm as a result of any insight I'd shared here, and I don't care
whether that would be a Russian soldier or a Ukrainian freedom
fighter, or heaven forbid a civilian not involved in the
hostilities. I've already had an indirect approach from a party in
the conflict this week to provide resources for cyber-warriors,
and have politely declined and informed our university's chief
information security officer, whose response to me was that he
would have been a lot less polite than me.<br>
>> A significant part of the tensions you currently see
explode in Ukraine have festered for decades and are rooted in
Russia's gas exports to Western Europe. That gas has flowed for
many decades, a big part of it through the territory of today's
Ukraine. The pipelines go back to Soviet days when Ukraine was
part of the USSR. Germany, as Russia's main gas customer, always
found their Russian business partners to be reliable and faithful
to contracts signed (my father was a commercial lawyer in the city
of Essen, and dealt a lot with Ruhrgas there, then Germany's
biggest gas company and the USSR's / Russia's biggest customer in
Germany, and knows the former CEO). When the USSR fell apart,
Russia suddenly found itself with another transit country along
its pipeline. Ukraine insisted on being supplied at rates they
would nominate. Russia was faced with a choice between supplying
Ukraine for cheap or losing its ability to supply Western Europe.
That's why they wanted the Nord Stream 2 pipeline so badly. After
years of multi-party negotiations with the US trying to talk
Germany out of saying yes to the pipeline, the Germans were left
with the impression that US insistence was in no small parts
motivated by them wanting to sell US-produced LPG to Europe.<br>
>> None of that is an excuse for a brutal invasion, of
course, but maybe a reminder that life is sometimes a bit more
complex than is suitable for a simple good-bad scheme.<br>
>> I laud Starlink and other initiatives for adding options
to preserve connectivity for people in Ukraine, however small
these options will be in scale, and hope that the good that will
come out of the ability to support innocent civilians and shine
light into dark corners will outweigh any use for the pursuit of
hostilities and any risks to those using it.<br>
>> On 4/03/2022 12:47 pm, David P. Reed wrote:<br>
>>> I'm really appreciating all the analysis of Starlink
in Ukraine context here.<br>
>>><br>
>>> However, it's a lot distressing that the focus is on
"military operations" context.<br>
>>> It seems like most of the commentators want to be
armchair military commanders in a situation where the last thing
any Ukrainian needs is more attacks and bloodshed (no matter how
precision-guided).<br>
>>><br>
>>> Are we helping Elon Musk become an international arms
dealer? Is that what he wants?<br>
>>><br>
>>> So how is Starlink helping get aid to the vast
majority (of any political persuasion) who just want to survive
and don't really want to incinerate ANYONE with a Molotov
cocktail?<br>
>>><br>
>>> Surely there are applications of Starlink and
Internet to peace other than the US's favorite mantra (if you
remember) "Kill for Peace, Kill, Kill, Kill for Peace"<br>
>>><br>
>>> This also strikes me about the ideas aimed at
punishing Russia by disconnecting if from the Internet at the
borders and denying the people living there from accessing PayPal,
etc.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On Thursday, March 3, 2022 5:01pm,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:starlink-request@lists.bufferbloat.net">starlink-request@lists.bufferbloat.net</a> said:<br>
>>><br>
>>>> Send Starlink mailing list submissions to<br>
>>>> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net">starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide
Web, visit<br>
>>>> <a href="https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink</a><br>
>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or
body 'help' to<br>
>>>> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:starlink-request@lists.bufferbloat.net">starlink-request@lists.bufferbloat.net</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
>>>> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:starlink-owner@lists.bufferbloat.net">starlink-owner@lists.bufferbloat.net</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so
it is more specific<br>
>>>> than "Re: Contents of Starlink digest..."<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Today's Topics:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> 1. Re: recent starlink rrul test result
(<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:tom@evslin.com">tom@evslin.com</a>)<br>
>>>> 2. Re: recent starlink rrul test result (David
Lang)<br>
>>>> 3. Re: recent starlink rrul test result (David
Lang)<br>
>>>> 4. Re: spacex & ukraine (Larry Press)<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Message: 1<br>
>>>> Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:42:54 -0500<br>
>>>> From: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:tom@evslin.com"><tom@evslin.com></a><br>
>>>> To: "'Nathan Owens'" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nathan@nathan.io"><nathan@nathan.io></a>,
"'David Lang'"<br>
>>>> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:david@lang.hm"><david@lang.hm></a><br>
>>>> Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net"><starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net></a><br>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Starlink] recent starlink rrul test
result<br>
>>>> Message-ID:
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:23e201d82f26$1d938720$58ba9560$@evslin.com"><23e201d82f26$1d938720$58ba9560$@evslin.com></a><br>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I’ve also stayed with my Starlink connection for
teleconferencing altho we<br>
>>>> now have fiber available. My connection is not
usually the worst on the call but<br>
>>>> not perfect either. If I were a job seeker or
being paid to present AND I had a<br>
>>>> choice, I wouldn’t use Starlink when critical<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> From: Starlink
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net"><starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net></a> On Behalf Of Nathan<br>
>>>> Owens<br>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 3, 2022 12:16 PM<br>
>>>> To: David Lang <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:david@lang.hm"><david@lang.hm></a><br>
>>>> Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net">starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net</a><br>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Starlink] recent starlink rrul test
result<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Same here, Google Meet / Zoom / Teams / FaceTime
are great.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Dave, can you post the commands to run those
flent measurements? I also finally<br>
>>>> recreated that irtt-based scatterplot, attached.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 7:15 AM David Lang
<<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:david@lang.hm">david@lang.hm</a><br>
>>>> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:david@lang.hm"><mailto:david@lang.hm></a> > wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> That said, I've been using starlink for work zoom
calls for a while with no<br>
>>>> significant issues (nothing I can pin on my side
vs the other participants)<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> David Lang<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022, Dave Taht wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>>> wildly variable bandwidth, adjusted at 15 sec
intervals, induced<br>
>>>>> latencies of 400ms, really terrible upload
throughput relative to<br>
>>>>> down.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> H/T David Lang for this data.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 9:31 AM Livingood,
Jason<br>
>>>>> <<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Jason_Livingood@comcast.com">Jason_Livingood@comcast.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Jason_Livingood@comcast.com"><mailto:Jason_Livingood@comcast.com></a><br>
>>>>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> When folks experience sub-par video
conferencing over Starlink, it'd be<br>
>>>> great to see working latency stats at that time -
such as via the easy test at<br>
>>>> <a href="https://www.waveform.com/tools/bufferbloat" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.waveform.com/tools/bufferbloat</a>.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> On 2/23/22, 09:38, "Starlink on behalf of
Dave Taht"<br>
>>>> <<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net">starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net</a><br>
>>>>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net"><mailto:starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net></a> on behalf of<br>
>>>> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dave.taht@gmail.com">dave.taht@gmail.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dave.taht@gmail.com"><mailto:dave.taht@gmail.com></a> > wrote:<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>> <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://blog.tomevslin.com/2022/02/starlinks-zoomready-rating-is-going-down.html__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj8WTA26WA$" moz-do-not-send="true">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://blog.tomevslin.com/2022/02/starlinks-zoomready-rating-is-going-down.html__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj8WTA26WA$</a><br>
>>>> <<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/blog.tomevslin.com/2022/02/starlinks-zoomready-rating-is-going-down.html__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj8WTA26WA$" moz-do-not-send="true">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/blog.tomevslin.com/2022/02/starlinks-zoomready-rating-is-going-down.html__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj8WTA26WA$</a>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> --<br>
>>>>>> I tried to build a better future, a few
times:<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>> <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=https*3A*2F*2Fwww.icei.org__;JSUl!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj-yqmwsLA$" moz-do-not-send="true">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=https*3A*2F*2Fwww.icei.org__;JSUl!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj-yqmwsLA$</a><br>
>>>> <<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/wayforward.archive.org/?site=https*3A*2F*2Fwww.icei.org__;JSUl!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj-yqmwsLA$" moz-do-not-send="true">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/wayforward.archive.org/?site=https*3A*2F*2Fwww.icei.org__;JSUl!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj-yqmwsLA$</a>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC<br>
>>>>>>
_______________________________________________<br>
>>>>>> Starlink mailing list<br>
>>>>>> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net">Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net</a><br>
>>>> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net"><mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net></a><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>> <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj_SP7yVhg$" moz-do-not-send="true">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj_SP7yVhg$</a><br>
>>>> <<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj_SP7yVhg$" moz-do-not-send="true">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj_SP7yVhg$</a>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>>
_______________________________________________<br>
>>>> Starlink mailing list<br>
>>>> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net">Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net"><mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net></a><br>
>>>> <a href="https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> -------------- next part --------------<br>
>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
>>>> URL:<br>
>>>> <<a href="https://lists.bufferbloat.net/pipermail/starlink/attachments/20220303/9fd1da2c/attachment-0001.html" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.bufferbloat.net/pipermail/starlink/attachments/20220303/9fd1da2c/attachment-0001.html</a>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> ------------------------------<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Message: 2<br>
>>>> Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:36:42 -0800 (PST)<br>
>>>> From: David Lang <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:david@lang.hm"><david@lang.hm></a><br>
>>>> To: Nathan Owens <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nathan@nathan.io"><nathan@nathan.io></a><br>
>>>> Cc: David Lang <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:david@lang.hm"><david@lang.hm></a>, Dave Taht
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dave.taht@gmail.com"><dave.taht@gmail.com></a>,<br>
>>>> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net">"starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net"</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net"><starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net></a><br>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Starlink] recent starlink rrul test
result<br>
>>>> Message-ID:
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:87o7734r-5ns1-q734-0qr-q0o06sp72s46@ynat.uz"><87o7734r-5ns1-q734-0qr-q0o06sp72s46@ynat.uz></a><br>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8";
Format="flowed"<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> flent -l 300 --step-size=.05 --socket-stats -H
fremont.starlink.taht.net<br>
>>>> --te=upload_streams=1 -t dlangs-dishy tcp_nup<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> flent -l 300 --step-size=.05 --socket-stats -H
fremont.starlink.taht.net<br>
>>>> --te=download_streams=1 -t dlangs-dishy tcp_ndown<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> flent -l 300 --step-size=.05 --socket-stats -H
fremont.starlink.taht.net<br>
>>>> --te=upload_streams=8 -t dlangs-dishy-8 tcp_nup<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> flent -l 300 --step-size=.05 --socket-stats -H
fremont.starlink.taht.net<br>
>>>> --te=download_streams=8 -t dlangs-dishy-8
tcp_ndown<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> flent -l 300 --step-size=.05 --socket-stats -H
fremont.starlink.taht.net -t<br>
>>>> dlangs-dishy rrul_be<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022, Nathan Owens wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>>> Same here, Google Meet / Zoom / Teams /
FaceTime are great.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Dave, can you post the commands to run those
flent measurements? I also<br>
>>>>> finally recreated that irtt-based
scatterplot, attached.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 7:15 AM David Lang
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:david@lang.hm"><david@lang.hm></a> wrote:<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>>> That said, I've been using starlink for
work zoom calls for a while with<br>
>>>>>> no<br>
>>>>>> significant issues (nothing I can pin on
my side vs the other<br>
>>>> participants)<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> David Lang<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022, Dave Taht wrote:<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> wildly variable bandwidth, adjusted
at 15 sec intervals, induced<br>
>>>>>>> latencies of 400ms, really terrible
upload throughput relative to<br>
>>>>>>> down.<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> H/T David Lang for this data.<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 9:31 AM
Livingood, Jason<br>
>>>>>>> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Jason_Livingood@comcast.com"><Jason_Livingood@comcast.com></a>
wrote:<br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> When folks experience sub-par
video conferencing over Starlink,<br>
>>>> it'd be<br>
>>>>>> great to see working latency stats at
that time - such as via the easy<br>
>>>> test<br>
>>>>>> at <a href="https://www.waveform.com/tools/bufferbloat" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.waveform.com/tools/bufferbloat</a>.<br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> On 2/23/22, 09:38, "Starlink on
behalf of Dave Taht" <<br>
>>>>>> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net">starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net</a> on
behalf of<br>
>>>> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dave.taht@gmail.com">dave.taht@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>>>>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>> <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://blog.tomevslin.com/2022/02/starlinks-zoomready-rating-is-going-down.html__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj8WTA26WA$" moz-do-not-send="true">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://blog.tomevslin.com/2022/02/starlinks-zoomready-rating-is-going-down.html__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj8WTA26WA$</a><br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> --<br>
>>>>>>>> I tried to build a better future,
a few times:<br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>> <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=https*3A*2F*2Fwww.icei.org__;JSUl!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj-yqmwsLA$" moz-do-not-send="true">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=https*3A*2F*2Fwww.icei.org__;JSUl!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj-yqmwsLA$</a><br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC<br>
>>>>>>>>
_______________________________________________<br>
>>>>>>>> Starlink mailing list<br>
>>>>>>>> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net">Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net</a><br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>> <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj_SP7yVhg$" moz-do-not-send="true">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj_SP7yVhg$</a><br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>
_______________________________________________<br>
>>>>>> Starlink mailing list<br>
>>>>>> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net">Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net</a><br>
>>>>>> <a href="https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink</a><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> ------------------------------<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Message: 3<br>
>>>> Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:37:25 -0800 (PST)<br>
>>>> From: David Lang <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:david@lang.hm"><david@lang.hm></a><br>
>>>> To: David Lang <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:david@lang.hm"><david@lang.hm></a><br>
>>>> Cc: Nathan Owens <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nathan@nathan.io"><nathan@nathan.io></a>, Dave
Taht <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dave.taht@gmail.com"><dave.taht@gmail.com></a>,<br>
>>>> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net">"starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net"</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net"><starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net></a><br>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Starlink] recent starlink rrul test
result<br>
>>>> Message-ID:
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sp882r34-92q4-4019-8oo3-68r5n53s19n5@ynat.uz"><sp882r34-92q4-4019-8oo3-68r5n53s19n5@ynat.uz></a><br>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8";
Format="flowed"<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> and the irtt<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> irtt client --dscp=0xfe -i3ms -d20m
fremont.starlink.taht.net<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022, David Lang wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>>> flent -l 300 --step-size=.05 --socket-stats
-H fremont.starlink.taht.net<br>
>>>>> --te=upload_streams=1 -t dlangs-dishy tcp_nup<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> flent -l 300 --step-size=.05 --socket-stats
-H fremont.starlink.taht.net<br>
>>>>> --te=download_streams=1 -t dlangs-dishy
tcp_ndown<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> flent -l 300 --step-size=.05 --socket-stats
-H fremont.starlink.taht.net<br>
>>>>> --te=upload_streams=8 -t dlangs-dishy-8
tcp_nup<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> flent -l 300 --step-size=.05 --socket-stats
-H fremont.starlink.taht.net<br>
>>>>> --te=download_streams=8 -t dlangs-dishy-8
tcp_ndown<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> flent -l 300 --step-size=.05 --socket-stats
-H fremont.starlink.taht.net -t<br>
>>>>> dlangs-dishy rrul_be<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022, Nathan Owens wrote:<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Same here, Google Meet / Zoom / Teams /
FaceTime are great.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Dave, can you post the commands to run
those flent measurements? I also<br>
>>>>>> finally recreated that irtt-based
scatterplot, attached.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 7:15 AM David Lang
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:david@lang.hm"><david@lang.hm></a> wrote:<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> That said, I've been using starlink
for work zoom calls for a while<br>
>>>> with<br>
>>>>>>> no<br>
>>>>>>> significant issues (nothing I can pin
on my side vs the other<br>
>>>>>>> participants)<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> David Lang<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022, Dave Taht wrote:<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> wildly variable bandwidth,
adjusted at 15 sec intervals, induced<br>
>>>>>>>> latencies of 400ms, really
terrible upload throughput relative to<br>
>>>>>>>> down.<br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> H/T David Lang for this data.<br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 9:31 AM
Livingood, Jason<br>
>>>>>>>>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Jason_Livingood@comcast.com"><Jason_Livingood@comcast.com></a> wrote:<br>
>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>> When folks experience sub-par
video conferencing over<br>
>>>> Starlink, it'd be<br>
>>>>>>> great to see working latency stats at
that time - such as via the<br>
>>>> easy<br>
>>>>>>> test<br>
>>>>>>> at <a href="https://www.waveform.com/tools/bufferbloat" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.waveform.com/tools/bufferbloat</a>.<br>
>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>> On 2/23/22, 09:38, "Starlink
on behalf of Dave Taht"<br>
>>>> <<br>
>>>>>>>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net">starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net</a> on behalf of<br>
>>>> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dave.taht@gmail.com">dave.taht@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>>>>>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>> <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://blog.tomevslin.com/2022/02/starlinks-zoomready-rating-is-going-down.html__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj8WTA26WA$" moz-do-not-send="true">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://blog.tomevslin.com/2022/02/starlinks-zoomready-rating-is-going-down.html__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj8WTA26WA$</a><br>
>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>> --<br>
>>>>>>>>> I tried to build a better
future, a few times:<br>
>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>> <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=https*3A*2F*2Fwww.icei.org__;JSUl!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj-yqmwsLA$" moz-do-not-send="true">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=https*3A*2F*2Fwww.icei.org__;JSUl!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj-yqmwsLA$</a><br>
>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC<br>
>>>>>>>>>
_______________________________________________<br>
>>>>>>>>> Starlink mailing list<br>
>>>>>>>>>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net">Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net</a><br>
>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>> <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj_SP7yVhg$" moz-do-not-send="true">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj_SP7yVhg$</a><br>
>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>
_______________________________________________<br>
>>>>>>> Starlink mailing list<br>
>>>>>>> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net">Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net</a><br>
>>>>>>> <a href="https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink</a><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> ------------------------------<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Message: 4<br>
>>>> Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2022 22:01:36 +0000<br>
>>>> From: Larry Press <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:lpress@csudh.edu"><lpress@csudh.edu></a><br>
>>>> To: Mike Puchol <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mike@starlink.sx"><mike@starlink.sx></a>, Dave
Taht <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dave.taht@gmail.com"><dave.taht@gmail.com></a>,<br>
>>>> David Lang <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:david@lang.hm"><david@lang.hm></a><br>
>>>> Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net">"starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net"</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net"><starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net></a><br>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Starlink] spacex & ukraine<br>
>>>> Message-ID:<br>
>>>>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:BYAPR03MB386303F48A1F1EBBF8AB3B3DC2049@BYAPR03MB3863.namprd03.prod.outlook.com"><BYAPR03MB386303F48A1F1EBBF8AB3B3DC2049@BYAPR03MB3863.namprd03.prod.outlook.com></a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"<br>
>>>><br>
>>>>> The balance, as David mentions, is on the
value of the target vs. the effort<br>
>>>> required to strike.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> The value of allowing government and resistance
leaders and journalists to<br>
>>>> communicate with each other and the outside world
seems quite high, making the<br>
>>>> terminals attractive targets for the Russians.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> The cost of locating and striking a target also
seems high -- Ukraine is large and<br>
>>>> the terminals are portable. SpaceX is testing
roaming without re-registration in<br>
>>>> California/Nevada<br>
>>>> (<a href="https://circleid.com/posts/20220225-spacex-is-testing-starlink-roaming" moz-do-not-send="true">https://circleid.com/posts/20220225-spacex-is-testing-starlink-roaming</a>).
If<br>
>>>> SpaceX is listening -- consider enabling roaming
in by the users in Ukraine.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Larry<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> ________________________________<br>
>>>> From: Starlink
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net"><starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net></a> on behalf of Mike<br>
>>>> Puchol <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mike@starlink.sx"><mike@starlink.sx></a><br>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 2, 2022 1:06 AM<br>
>>>> To: Dave Taht <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dave.taht@gmail.com"><dave.taht@gmail.com></a>; David
Lang <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:david@lang.hm"><david@lang.hm></a><br>
>>>> Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net">starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net"><starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net></a><br>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Starlink] spacex & ukraine<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Thank you Dave, the honor is mine to share a
mailing list with so many people who<br>
>>>> know way more than I do, about any subject I
could point my finger at, so I really<br>
>>>> appreciate it.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On the subject at hand, ELINT/SIGINT and traffic
analysis has evolved massively<br>
>>>> over the years. In the mid-90s, the Chechen
president was killed by Russia with a<br>
>>>> missile strike, based on his satcom phone
signals, which included decoding the<br>
>>>> speech and matching to ensure they were hitting
the right target.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> The balance, as David mentions, is on the value
of the target vs. the effort<br>
>>>> required to strike. It is relatively easy to
monitor cellular networks, decrypt<br>
>>>> the traffic, and triangulate to almost
automatically target & strike. The same<br>
>>>> happens with VSAT, which operates against a fixed
satellite, so an aircraft high<br>
>>>> enough will be in the path between a large
portion of the ground and the<br>
>>>> satellite.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> With Starlink, the challenge is two-fold. You
must be able to detect & locate the<br>
>>>> 4.5º wide uplink beam from a terminal, which
constantly moves - this can be<br>
>>>> done by measuring just the RF levels and using an
ESA to find the source. You must<br>
>>>> also ensure that the user of the terminal is a
target valuable enough to justify a<br>
>>>> strike, which would be a lot harder, as you need
to keep a good enough SNR to<br>
>>>> demodulate, then you’d need to decrypt. Doing
this in real time on an<br>
>>>> airborne platform is quite a challenge.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Bottom line: unless Russia goes all-out against
anyone using any form of radio<br>
>>>> comms (phones, VSAT, satcom, Starlink, etc.) and
they just blindly strike any<br>
>>>> source of RF, a Starlink user has a good chance
to avoid being targeted by just<br>
>>>> using the terminal. Different case is if
terminals get used by the military, and<br>
>>>> Russia then assumes Starlink = military target.
We’re far from any clear<br>
>>>> scenario, so we need to wait & see.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> A couple of weeks ago I sent a Ku band LNB to
Oleg, tuned to the Starlink uplink<br>
>>>> band (12.75 - 14.5 GHz), but it arrived a couple
of days before the invasion<br>
>>>> began, so he didn’t get a chance to do any
analysis on the TX side of the<br>
>>>> terminal.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Best,<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Mike<br>
>>>> On Mar 1, 2022, 22:15 +0300, David Lang
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:david@lang.hm"><david@lang.hm></a>, wrote:<br>
>>>> a couple thoughts on anti-radiation missiles
being fired at starlink dishes<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> 1. the dishes are fairly low power (100w or less)
and rather directional, so<br>
>>>> they aren't great targets.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> 2. dishes cost FAR less than the missiles that
would be fired at them, and are<br>
>>>> being produced at a much higher rate (although
there are probably more missles<br>
>>>> in the Russian inventory than spare dishes in
SpaceX inventory)<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> direction finding teams with boots on the ground
could be more of a threat, but<br>
>>>> the higher frequency signals are blocked fairly
easily (which is why the dishes<br>
>>>> need a clear view of the sky). It takes a fair
amount of training to be good at<br>
>>>> direction finding on weak and intermittent
signals.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> David Lang<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On Tue, 1 Mar 2022, Dave Taht wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2022 13:55:47 -0500<br>
>>>> From: Dave Taht <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dave.taht@gmail.com"><dave.taht@gmail.com></a><br>
>>>> To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net">starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net</a><br>
>>>> Subject: [Starlink] spacex & ukraine<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> It is an ongoing honor to have mike puchol
sharing his insights with<br>
>>>> us, also, on this list.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> <a href="https://spacenews.com/spacex-heeds-ukraines-starlink-sos" moz-do-not-send="true">https://spacenews.com/spacex-heeds-ukraines-starlink-sos/</a><<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://spacenews.com/spacex-heeds-ukraines-starlink-sos/__;!!P7nkOOY!uT2pzIfUcFbj7Vv0Bb9RBU2KwIN5DrfrZHS-tHLcaxzdteVwgm5SzgXoiFK1cNklRuLosonTTiDHWk8$" moz-do-not-send="true">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://spacenews.com/spacex-heeds-ukraines-starlink-sos/__;!!P7nkOOY!uT2pzIfUcFbj7Vv0Bb9RBU2KwIN5DrfrZHS-tHLcaxzdteVwgm5SzgXoiFK1cNklRuLosonTTiDHWk8$</a>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> --<br>
>>>> I tried to build a better future, a few times:<br>
>>>> <a href="https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.icei.org" moz-do-not-send="true">https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.icei.org</a><<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=https*3A*2F*2Fwww.icei.org__;JSUl!!P7nkOOY!uT2pzIfUcFbj7Vv0Bb9RBU2KwIN5DrfrZHS-tHLcaxzdteVwgm5SzgXoiFK1cNklRuLosonTw6dgoHU$" moz-do-not-send="true">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=https*3A*2F*2Fwww.icei.org__;JSUl!!P7nkOOY!uT2pzIfUcFbj7Vv0Bb9RBU2KwIN5DrfrZHS-tHLcaxzdteVwgm5SzgXoiFK1cNklRuLosonTw6dgoHU$</a>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC<br>
>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>> Starlink mailing list<br>
>>>> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net">Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net</a><br>
>>>> <a href="https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink</a><<a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink__;!!P7nkOOY!uT2pzIfUcFbj7Vv0Bb9RBU2KwIN5DrfrZHS-tHLcaxzdteVwgm5SzgXoiFK1cNklRuLosonTN75eAXM$" moz-do-not-send="true">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink__;!!P7nkOOY!uT2pzIfUcFbj7Vv0Bb9RBU2KwIN5DrfrZHS-tHLcaxzdteVwgm5SzgXoiFK1cNklRuLosonTN75eAXM$</a>><br>
>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>> Starlink mailing list<br>
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>>>> Subject: Digest Footer<br>
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>>>><br>
>>>> End of Starlink Digest, Vol 12, Issue 6<br>
>>>> ***************************************<br>
>>>><br>
>>><br>
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>>><br>
>> --<br>
>>
****************************************************************<br>
>> Dr. Ulrich Speidel<br>
>><br>
>> School of Computer Science<br>
>><br>
>> Room 303S.594 (City Campus)<br>
>><br>
>> The University of Auckland<br>
>> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz">u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz</a><br>
>> <a href="http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/</a><br>
>>
****************************************************************<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Starlink mailing list<br>
>> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net">Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net</a><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink</a><br>
>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
****************************************************************
Dr. Ulrich Speidel
School of Computer Science
Room 303S.594 (City Campus)
The University of Auckland
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz">u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/">http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/</a>
****************************************************************
</pre>
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