<div dir="ltr"><div>If you just UDP iperf the crap out of it, the bandwidth available is pretty good:</div><div><br></div><div>[ ID] Interval Transfer Bitrate Jitter Lost/Total Datagrams<br>[ 5] 0.00-1.00 sec 25.7 MBytes 216 Mbits/sec 0.026 ms 10078/28719 (35%)<br>[ 5] 1.00-2.00 sec 36.0 MBytes 302 Mbits/sec 0.031 ms 4178/30262 (14%)<br>[ 5] 2.00-3.00 sec 39.0 MBytes 327 Mbits/sec 0.053 ms 1961/30231 (6.5%)<br>[ 5] 3.00-4.00 sec 38.9 MBytes 326 Mbits/sec 0.059 ms 1787/29937 (6%)<br>[ 5] 4.00-5.00 sec 39.1 MBytes 328 Mbits/sec 0.026 ms 2166/30447 (7.1%)<br>[ 5] 5.00-6.00 sec 34.4 MBytes 289 Mbits/sec 0.030 ms 5274/30180 (17%)<br>[ 5] 6.00-7.00 sec 34.9 MBytes 293 Mbits/sec 0.066 ms 4982/30286 (16%)<br>[ 5] 7.00-8.00 sec 37.6 MBytes 316 Mbits/sec 0.136 ms 2915/30158 (9.7%)<br>[ 5] 8.00-9.00 sec 39.0 MBytes 327 Mbits/sec 0.040 ms 2004/30250 (6.6%)<br>[ 5] 9.00-10.00 sec 39.0 MBytes 327 Mbits/sec 0.055 ms 1977/30240 (6.5%)<br>[ 5] 10.00-11.00 sec 38.2 MBytes 320 Mbits/sec 0.029 ms 2539/30203 (8.4%)<br>[ 5] 11.00-12.00 sec 35.7 MBytes 299 Mbits/sec 0.070 ms 4349/30177 (14%)<br>[ 5] 12.00-13.00 sec 32.9 MBytes 276 Mbits/sec 0.028 ms 6336/30169 (21%)<br>[ 5] 13.00-14.00 sec 36.1 MBytes 303 Mbits/sec 0.027 ms 4110/30271 (14%)<br>[ 5] 14.00-15.00 sec 22.2 MBytes 186 Mbits/sec 0.033 ms 14245/30298 (47%)<br>[ 5] 15.00-16.00 sec 27.1 MBytes 227 Mbits/sec 0.066 ms 10529/30164 (35%)<br>[ 5] 16.00-17.00 sec 33.4 MBytes 280 Mbits/sec 0.057 ms 5989/30184 (20%)<br>[ 5] 17.00-18.00 sec 33.7 MBytes 283 Mbits/sec 0.046 ms 5804/30220 (19%)<br>[ 5] 18.00-19.00 sec 24.7 MBytes 207 Mbits/sec 0.032 ms 12323/30198 (41%)<br>[ 5] 19.00-20.00 sec 30.6 MBytes 257 Mbits/sec 0.044 ms 8129/30292 (27%)<br>[ 5] 20.00-21.00 sec 27.9 MBytes 234 Mbits/sec 0.030 ms 9905/30140 (33%)<br>[ 5] 21.00-22.00 sec 19.5 MBytes 164 Mbits/sec 0.059 ms 16089/30220 (53%)<br>[ 5] 22.00-23.00 sec 19.4 MBytes 163 Mbits/sec 0.069 ms 16147/30211 (53%)<br>[ 5] 23.00-24.00 sec 20.5 MBytes 172 Mbits/sec 0.035 ms 15355/30234 (51%)<br>[ 5] 24.00-25.00 sec 25.6 MBytes 215 Mbits/sec 0.030 ms 11634/30187 (39%)<br>[ 5] 25.00-26.00 sec 34.1 MBytes 286 Mbits/sec 0.061 ms 5681/30346 (19%)<br>[ 5] 26.00-27.00 sec 29.4 MBytes 247 Mbits/sec 0.037 ms 8787/30081 (29%)<br>[ 5] 27.00-28.00 sec 23.3 MBytes 196 Mbits/sec 0.056 ms 13361/30257 (44%)<br>[ 5] 28.00-29.00 sec 31.0 MBytes 260 Mbits/sec 0.028 ms 7750/30206 (26%)<br>[ 5] 29.00-30.00 sec 20.4 MBytes 171 Mbits/sec 0.033 ms 15422/30186 (51%)<br>[ 5] 30.00-31.00 sec 30.9 MBytes 259 Mbits/sec 0.039 ms 7761/30110 (26%)<br>[ 5] 31.00-32.00 sec 31.4 MBytes 263 Mbits/sec 0.055 ms 7641/30357 (25%)<br>[ 5] 32.00-33.00 sec 31.9 MBytes 268 Mbits/sec 0.062 ms 7069/30180 (23%)<br>[ 5] 33.00-34.00 sec 29.8 MBytes 250 Mbits/sec 0.028 ms 8630/30206 (29%)<br>[ 5] 34.00-35.00 sec 32.7 MBytes 274 Mbits/sec 0.056 ms 6638/30283 (22%)<br>[ 5] 35.00-36.00 sec 29.5 MBytes 247 Mbits/sec 0.066 ms 8800/30129 (29%)<br>[ 5] 36.00-37.00 sec 25.9 MBytes 217 Mbits/sec 0.038 ms 11501/30247 (38%)<br>[ 5] 37.00-38.00 sec 26.2 MBytes 220 Mbits/sec 0.050 ms 10978/29969 (37%)<br>[ 5] 38.00-39.00 sec 28.0 MBytes 235 Mbits/sec 0.038 ms 10208/30490 (33%)<br>[ 5] 39.00-40.00 sec 25.2 MBytes 211 Mbits/sec 0.109 ms 11942/30171 (40%)<br>[ 5] 40.00-41.00 sec 24.7 MBytes 208 Mbits/sec 0.022 ms 12360/30279 (41%)<br>[ 5] 41.00-42.00 sec 24.1 MBytes 202 Mbits/sec 0.041 ms 12587/30040 (42%)<br>[ 5] 42.00-43.00 sec 26.0 MBytes 218 Mbits/sec 0.032 ms 11635/30444 (38%)<br>[ 5] 43.00-44.00 sec 26.0 MBytes 218 Mbits/sec 0.063 ms 11318/30153 (38%)<br>[ 5] 44.00-45.00 sec 23.3 MBytes 196 Mbits/sec 0.028 ms 13279/30183 (44%)<br>[ 5] 45.00-46.00 sec 34.8 MBytes 292 Mbits/sec 0.046 ms 5008/30227 (17%)<br>[ 5] 46.00-47.00 sec 35.2 MBytes 295 Mbits/sec 0.041 ms 4838/30334 (16%)<br>[ 5] 47.00-48.00 sec 29.1 MBytes 244 Mbits/sec 0.068 ms 9052/30147 (30%)<br>[ 5] 48.00-49.00 sec 26.0 MBytes 218 Mbits/sec 0.040 ms 11421/30222 (38%)<br>[ 5] 49.00-50.00 sec 25.4 MBytes 213 Mbits/sec 0.049 ms 11798/30207 (39%)<br>[ 5] 50.00-51.00 sec 27.3 MBytes 229 Mbits/sec 0.057 ms 10412/30217 (34%)<br>[ 5] 51.00-52.00 sec 24.9 MBytes 209 Mbits/sec 0.030 ms 12179/30233 (40%)<br>[ 5] 52.00-53.00 sec 26.5 MBytes 222 Mbits/sec 0.045 ms 11067/30259 (37%)<br>[ 5] 53.00-54.00 sec 26.5 MBytes 223 Mbits/sec 0.025 ms 10985/30200 (36%)<br>[ 5] 54.00-55.00 sec 25.3 MBytes 212 Mbits/sec 0.099 ms 11861/30192 (39%)<br>[ 5] 55.00-56.00 sec 29.7 MBytes 249 Mbits/sec 0.034 ms 8714/30235 (29%)<br>[ 5] 56.00-57.00 sec 36.1 MBytes 303 Mbits/sec 0.053 ms 4051/30224 (13%)<br>[ 5] 57.00-58.00 sec 29.8 MBytes 250 Mbits/sec 0.048 ms 8622/30187 (29%)<br>[ 5] 58.00-59.00 sec 31.6 MBytes 265 Mbits/sec 0.029 ms 7481/30353 (25%)<br>[ 5] 59.00-60.00 sec 14.2 MBytes 119 Mbits/sec 0.040 ms 19884/30175 (66%)<br>[ 5] 60.00-61.00 sec 33.3 MBytes 279 Mbits/sec 0.034 ms 6223/30336 (21%)<br>[ 5] 61.00-62.00 sec 32.7 MBytes 274 Mbits/sec 0.034 ms 6490/30157 (22%)<br>[ 5] 62.00-63.00 sec 33.3 MBytes 279 Mbits/sec 0.034 ms 6099/30217 (20%)<br>[ 5] 63.00-64.00 sec 31.4 MBytes 264 Mbits/sec 0.024 ms 7409/30162 (25%)<br>[ 5] 64.00-65.00 sec 34.3 MBytes 288 Mbits/sec 0.031 ms 5504/30328 (18%)<br>[ 5] 65.00-66.00 sec 34.4 MBytes 288 Mbits/sec 0.077 ms 5316/30216 (18%)<br>[ 5] 66.00-67.00 sec 34.2 MBytes 287 Mbits/sec 0.042 ms 5424/30167 (18%)<br>[ 5] 67.00-68.00 sec 29.4 MBytes 247 Mbits/sec 0.034 ms 8900/30223 (29%)<br>[ 5] 68.00-69.00 sec 33.4 MBytes 280 Mbits/sec 0.050 ms 6052/30203 (20%)<br>[ 5] 69.00-70.00 sec 34.4 MBytes 289 Mbits/sec 0.031 ms 5312/30259 (18%)<br>[ 5] 70.00-71.00 sec 34.4 MBytes 288 Mbits/sec 0.049 ms 5308/30198 (18%)<br>[ 5] 71.00-72.00 sec 30.8 MBytes 259 Mbits/sec 0.031 ms 7835/30169 (26%)<br>[ 5] 72.00-73.00 sec 33.9 MBytes 284 Mbits/sec 0.063 ms 5730/30254 (19%)<br>[ 5] 73.00-74.00 sec 33.4 MBytes 280 Mbits/sec 0.045 ms 6012/30226 (20%)<br>[ 5] 74.00-75.00 sec 20.0 MBytes 168 Mbits/sec 0.039 ms 15586/30062 (52%)<br>[ 5] 75.00-75.51 sec 10.2 MBytes 166 Mbits/sec 0.057 ms 8141/15495 (53%)</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Mar 15, 2022 at 3:47 PM Nathan Owens <<a href="mailto:nathan@nathan.io">nathan@nathan.io</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">Here’s what it looks like for a sustained download:</div><div dir="auto"><div><a href="https://i.redd.it/odo31ofu4t971.png" target="_blank">https://i.redd.it/odo31ofu4t971.png</a></div><div><img src="cid:17f8fc2e886619969561" style="max-width: 100%;"></div></div><div dir="auto">This was from a while ago, most of those latency spikes have been dampened. </div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Mar 15, 2022 at 3:39 PM Dave Taht <<a href="mailto:dave.taht@gmail.com" target="_blank">dave.taht@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On Tue, Mar 15, 2022 at 5:09 PM Daniel AJ Sokolov <<a href="mailto:daniel@falco.ca" target="_blank">daniel@falco.ca</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Hello,<br>
><br>
> From this list I have learned that Starlink is optimized to shine in<br>
> tests with <a href="http://speedtest.net" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">speedtest.net</a> and similar sites, but that transmission rates<br>
> drop quickly after about 15 seconds.<br>
<br>
That is not strictly true. The trend is a low rate for the initial<br>
15s, then a boost, then variable. It happens that speedtest reports<br>
the *last* result in the typically 20s it runs,<br>
so by that light is starlink is "optimized for speedtest". Much of the<br>
internet is "optimized for speedtest", tons of services basically blow<br>
up classic tcp congestion controls at T+21s.<br>
<br>
Attached are two example flent test runs, a rrul test from one project<br>
member's dishy, and a tcp_nup test from anothers.<br>
<br>
For reference also attached is how a present day WISP 60Ghz radio<br>
functions, one which has FQ and AQM, with consistent bandwidth, and<br>
only ~5ms latency swings. Ideally the latency on starlink would not go<br>
over 10ms their baseline ~40ms latency, under these loads.<br>
<br>
Comparing the later two tests you can see the inversions between<br>
bandwidth and latency that come from the fixed length fifos starlink<br>
uses at any of the roughly 3<br>
speed settings we currently see.<br>
<br>
PS - most web pages cannot use more than 25MBit in the 3s they typically take.<br>
<br>
> How do they do that, technically?<br>
<br>
Allocate bandwidth? Unknown. Ever 15s seems silly. Not modifying queue<br>
length and/not using a smarter queuing algo like fq_codel or cake when<br>
they do change the bandwidth allocation is the simple flaw in their<br>
design I keep hoping they'll fix.<br>
<br>
><br>
> Is that a result of Bufferbloat?<br>
<br>
Yes. The rrul test is often illustrative of the problem on how slowly<br>
the internet operates during an upload clogging up the queue, or vice<br>
versa. Most ISPs do some sort of ack filtering or prioritization to<br>
make uploads interfere less with downloads, or use AQM, fq or a<br>
combination of both.<br>
<br>
> Is that a a specific code in the modem<br>
> to cheat, like some car manufacturers cheated on emissions tests?<br>
<br>
I hope not. No, they do have limited capacity, do have to change sats,<br>
do need to allocate bandwidth sanely. AND buffering.<br>
<br>
> Is<br>
> that something done in the satellites who shift capacity from other<br>
> users to those users who initiate downloads? Is that done on the backhaul?<br>
<br>
Wish we knew. In my ideal world they would supply a statistic that a<br>
sch_cake could take and vary the rate/buffering based on that on the<br>
home router, or just do it more right<br>
in the dishy and head ends with cake + BQL.<br>
<br>
><br>
> Thank you<br>
> Daniel<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Starlink mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net" target="_blank">Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
I tried to build a better future, a few times:<br>
<a href="https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.icei.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.icei.org</a><br>
<br>
Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Starlink mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net" target="_blank">Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net</a><br>
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</blockquote></div></div>
</blockquote></div>