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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/03/2023 3:41 am, Sauli Kiviranta
via Starlink wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAJbqEYAVy-mjsFwAa7cQbFNjA+KibFYkZfGLJZrNWJ9t_H6yLA@mail.gmail.com">
<br>
Based on your location in NZ you should be among the best tests in<br>
terms of worst possible location in relation to our infra for
delays.<br>
</blockquote>
<p>Actually, probably we're anything but ideal here. Our Starlink
kit is an RV subscription one (our campus is too built-up for a
fixed one and H&S gets in the way of going onto any roof with
students). RV subscription capacity is managed differently from
fixed subscriptions, which is what most people have (we see much
more variation in goodput and RTT than what I've seen fixed users
report).</p>
<p>Also, our location here gives us a number of "unfair advantages"
in terms of Starlink: proximity to multiple gateways (lost of
choice in terms of sats visible from both UT and GW to route
through), neighbourhood on a cheap high fibre diet (not much
competition for capacity from other users in the cell), small
extended neighbourhood (some of which is already saturated). See
my slides of a panel talk I gave the other day at APNIC55 under
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://conference.apnic.net/55/assets/files/APPS314/starlink-first-impre_1677543480.pdf">https://conference.apnic.net/55/assets/files/APPS314/starlink-first-impre_1677543480.pdf</a>.
<br>
</p>
<p>So I'm not sure how comparable our situation would be with that
of your customer.<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAJbqEYAVy-mjsFwAa7cQbFNjA+KibFYkZfGLJZrNWJ9t_H6yLA@mail.gmail.com">Do
you mind running POINTR network analysis and see what kind of<br>
results you get? We did some tests with mining industry in
Australia<br>
with sat but it is already few years ago not Starlink. </blockquote>
<p>Australia is topologically further away from Finland than NZ - if
you do a traceroute, you should see your traffic go via the US,
and then depending on the cable it takes down to Oceania, it may
actually transit NZ (Southern Cross cable) before hitting
Australia. <br>
</p>
<p>I'll see what I can do in terms of POINTR once our industrial
action here ends (I'm currently nominally on strike, but then
again I'd probably be on here even if I didn't get paid ;-)).<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAJbqEYAVy-mjsFwAa7cQbFNjA+KibFYkZfGLJZrNWJ9t_H6yLA@mail.gmail.com">Even
better if<br>
you have two devices, register them then call to yourself so both<br>
endpoints go through the Starlink to see if everything or anything<br>
works and what type of delays you experience (double trouble!).<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Sauli<br>
<br>
<br>
On 28/02/2023, Ulrich Speidel via Starlink<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net"><starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net></a> wrote:<br>
> I think you may find this difficult to reproduce unless you
actually go<br>
> and see your customer.<br>
><br>
> Starlink isn't the same as Starlink. How it works depends on:<br>
><br>
> * Where your dishy is and where the closest gateway(s)
is/are. This<br>
> determines the number of options that the system has to route<br>
> between you and the gateway. The closer, the more options,<br>
> generally, as the number of sats that both you and the
gateway can<br>
> see decreases, as a rule of thumb, with distance between you
and<br>
> gateway.<br>
> * Where you are also matters. Satellite density is highest at
53 deg<br>
> north and 53 deg south. Starlink units between these
parallels will<br>
> look in the direction of their hemisphere when looking for a<br>
> satellite. Units at higher latitudes ... well someone tell me
where<br>
> they look!<br>
> * How many other Starlink users there are (a) in your cell
and (b) in<br>
> the neighbourhood of your cell. This determines the share of<br>
> capacity you'll get off the system. The fewer competing
users, the<br>
> better.<br>
> * What sort of backhaul the gateway is on. I only see IPv4
here in NZ<br>
> but some folk are on IPv6, and I guess the backhaul network
beyond<br>
> Starlink's control also matters in terms of bufferbloat etc.<br>
> * Weather<br>
> * Obstructions (Starlink can works pretty well with a
moderate degree<br>
> of obstruction, but obviously, as stated above, the more
options the<br>
> system has...)<br>
> * Available bandwidth (did Starlink get all the frequencies
that it<br>
> would have wanted at your customer's site or just some?) -
that's a<br>
> regulatory issue.<br>
><br>
> Basically, you could be comparing apples and pears here.<br>
><br>
> On 1/03/2023 12:53 am, Sauli Kiviranta via Starlink wrote:<br>
>> Thank you for the testing so far!<br>
>><br>
>> Special thanks to Nathan for the test call yesterday,
looks like<br>
>> everything works. I was shocked how good the Starlink
performed, I was<br>
>> in disbelief how well it worked since on my side I was
also on 4G and<br>
>> the performance was spectacular. Not the usual<br>
>> 8000km-and-sat-inbetween feeling.<br>
>><br>
>> So far we have not been able to reproduce the errors, if
the call is<br>
>> initiated from US it will route through the local infra.
So this could<br>
>> be one issue, if someone wants to make another test call
we can route<br>
>> it through EU.<br>
>><br>
>> Anyone in Canada capable of making a test? Even to just
run the<br>
>> network analysis.<br>
>><br>
>> I will meanwhile have to point the finger at the customer
if there are<br>
>> no signs of failure in any of the tests, I hate that.
Fixing a juicy<br>
>> bug is better than having configuration when things just
fail "without<br>
>> reason".<br>
>><br>
>> I can also provide additional test tools if someone is
interested in<br>
>> more bolts and nuts testing. Send me an email with
platform preference<br>
>> and I will share the test kit.<br>
>><br>
>> Best regards,<br>
>> Sauli<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On 27/02/2023, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:starlink-request@lists.bufferbloat.net">starlink-request@lists.bufferbloat.net</a><br>
>> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:starlink-request@lists.bufferbloat.net"><starlink-request@lists.bufferbloat.net></a> wrote:<br>
>> > Send Starlink mailing list submissions to<br>
>> > <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net">starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web,
visit<br>
>> > <a href="https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink</a><br>
>> <<a href="https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink</a>><br>
>> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body
'help' to<br>
>> > <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:starlink-request@lists.bufferbloat.net">starlink-request@lists.bufferbloat.net</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> > You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
>> > <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:starlink-owner@lists.bufferbloat.net">starlink-owner@lists.bufferbloat.net</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it
is more specific<br>
>> > than "Re: Contents of Starlink digest..."<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > Today's Topics:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > 1. Debugging connection through Starlink (POINTR)
(Sauli Kiviranta)<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> >
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Message: 1<br>
>> > Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2023 10:58:53 +0200<br>
>> > From: Sauli Kiviranta <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:smksauli@gmail.com"><smksauli@gmail.com></a><br>
>> > To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net">starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net</a><br>
>> > Subject: [Starlink] Debugging connection through
Starlink (POINTR)<br>
>> > Message-ID:<br>
>> >
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:CAJbqEYCDQOqqfpt4=gEpGV37URRh2UvGLjKV1XEpNPm1bxMu3Q@mail.gmail.com"><CAJbqEYCDQOqqfpt4=gEpGV37URRh2UvGLjKV1XEpNPm1bxMu3Q@mail.gmail.com></a><br>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Dear Starlink users,<br>
>> ><br>
>> > I have a request for help on debugging a customer
issue. We have users<br>
>> > in Canada who are using our industrial remote
collaboration tool<br>
>> > POINTR (<a href="http://www.pointr.com" moz-do-not-send="true">www.pointr.com</a><br>
>> <<a href="http://www.pointr.com" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.pointr.com</a>>)<br>
>> and have issues connecting through Starlink<br>
>> > (Standard HTTPS). We cannot reproduce their case as
we have no<br>
>> > Starlink at our disposal.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > If you would be kind enough to download POINTR
(either from the app<br>
>> > stores or from our website: <a href="https://www.pointr.com/downloads" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.pointr.com/downloads/</a><br>
>> <<a href="https://www.pointr.com/downloads" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.pointr.com/downloads</a>>).<br>
>> The<br>
>> > app itself follows standard SMS validation loop, if
this is an issue I<br>
>> > can provide you with virtual number with email
validation.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Problem 1: Can you connect to the servers?<br>
>> > - Once you try to complete registration loop, you
should get an error<br>
>> > that you are offline indicative that servers cannot
be reached (AWS,<br>
>> > Ireland/US/Brazil/Japan).<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Problem 2: What is the perceived network quality
within the app?<br>
>> > - Considering the outlined server distribution, if
you run the network<br>
>> > analysis, can you take a screenshot and share it?
(Example attached).<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Problem 3: What is the call quality between your
devices?<br>
>> > - If you can run network analysis, can you register
another device of<br>
>> > yours (same mobile number is ok) and call between
your own devices to<br>
>> > test how the video streaming goes through and what
type of delay you<br>
>> > experience? I will be also available for test calls
if you want to<br>
>> > establish a call between your location and Finland:
+358 40 357 3272<br>
>> > (group calls up to 7 users).<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Additionally any technical feedback on the behavior
will be<br>
>> > appreciated specially if you experience issues.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Best regards,<br>
>> > Sauli Kiviranta<br>
>> ><br>
>> > <a href="http://www.deltacygnilabs.com" moz-do-not-send="true">www.deltacygnilabs.com</a><br>
>> <<a href="http://www.deltacygnilabs.com" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.deltacygnilabs.com</a>><br>
>> ><br>
>> > Downloads:<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Android:<br>
>> ><br>
>> <a href="https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.DeltaCygniLabs.Pointr" moz-do-not-send="true">https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.DeltaCygniLabs.Pointr</a><br>
>> <<a href="https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.DeltaCygniLabs.Pointr" moz-do-not-send="true">https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.DeltaCygniLabs.Pointr</a>><br>
>> > APK:<br>
>> > <a href="https://www.pointr.com/downloads/#pointr-android" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.pointr.com/downloads/#pointr-android</a><br>
>> <<a href="https://www.pointr.com/downloads/#pointr-android" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.pointr.com/downloads/#pointr-android</a>><br>
>> ><br>
>> > iOS:<br>
>> ><br>
>> <a href="https://apps.apple.com/us/app/pointr-easy-remote-support/id1073131903" moz-do-not-send="true">https://apps.apple.com/us/app/pointr-easy-remote-support/id1073131903</a><br>
>> <<a href="https://apps.apple.com/us/app/pointr-easy-remote-support/id1073131903" moz-do-not-send="true">https://apps.apple.com/us/app/pointr-easy-remote-support/id1073131903</a>><br>
>> ><br>
>> > UWP:<br>
>> ><br>
>> <a href="https://apps.microsoft.com/store/detail/pointr-easy-remote-support/9NBLGGH52R41" moz-do-not-send="true">https://apps.microsoft.com/store/detail/pointr-easy-remote-support/9NBLGGH52R41</a><br>
>><br>
>> <<a href="https://apps.microsoft.com/store/detail/pointr-easy-remote-support/9NBLGGH52R41" moz-do-not-send="true">https://apps.microsoft.com/store/detail/pointr-easy-remote-support/9NBLGGH52R41</a>><br>
>> ><br>
>> > Windows:<br>
>> > <a href="https://www.pointr.com/downloads/#pointr-windows" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.pointr.com/downloads/#pointr-windows</a><br>
>> <<a href="https://www.pointr.com/downloads/#pointr-windows" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.pointr.com/downloads/#pointr-windows</a>><br>
>> > -------------- next part --------------<br>
>> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...<br>
>> > Name: Screenshot 2023-02-27 at 10.42.12.png<br>
>> > Type: image/png<br>
>> > Size: 146717 bytes<br>
>> > Desc: not available<br>
>> > URL:<br>
>> ><br>
>> <<a href="https://lists.bufferbloat.net/pipermail/starlink/attachments/20230227/6b707fb8/attachment.png" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.bufferbloat.net/pipermail/starlink/attachments/20230227/6b707fb8/attachment.png</a><br>
>><br>
>> <<a href="https://lists.bufferbloat.net/pipermail/starlink/attachments/20230227/6b707fb8/attachment.png" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.bufferbloat.net/pipermail/starlink/attachments/20230227/6b707fb8/attachment.png</a>>><br>
>> ><br>
>> > ------------------------------<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Subject: Digest Footer<br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> > Starlink mailing list<br>
>> > <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net">Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net</a><br>
>> > <a href="https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink</a><br>
>> <<a href="https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink</a>><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > ------------------------------<br>
>> ><br>
>> > End of Starlink Digest, Vol 23, Issue 26<br>
>> > ****************************************<br>
>> ><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
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><br>
> --<br>
>
****************************************************************<br>
> Dr. Ulrich Speidel<br>
><br>
> School of Computer Science<br>
><br>
> Room 303S.594 (City Campus)<br>
><br>
> The University of Auckland<br>
> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz">u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz</a><br>
> <a href="http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/</a><br>
>
****************************************************************<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Starlink mailing list<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net">Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net</a><br>
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</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
****************************************************************
Dr. Ulrich Speidel
School of Computer Science
Room 303S.594 (City Campus)
The University of Auckland
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz">u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/">http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/</a>
****************************************************************
</pre>
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