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<p>NZ does have lots of electricity. Peter Beck is from
Invercargill, which essentially lives off a huge aluminium smelter
at its doorstep that's threatening to close every couple of years
unless the government throws it a few extra sweets. Rocket
propellant manufacturing would be just the thing to do - how you'd
get it up to Mahia where they launch from is another question. So
he'll be well aware of that. But they get their rockets to Mahia
from their Auckland factory, which incidentally is at the outer
edge of walking distance from my place (we've been renting our our
downstairs flat as an airbnb for a few years and have had the odd
RocketLab engineer stay with us). <br>
</p>
<p>Tonga is another issue.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 18/11/2023 7:37 am, David Lang
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:sn645361-n62p-2q09-o4n1-9s1q6rp35q6s@ynat.uz">
NASASpaceflight.com had an interview with Peter Beck (rocket labs
founder) last <br>
weekend where they talked about their plans for Neutron launches
being only from <br>
the US, and he pointed out that the entire output of LOX in New
Zealand wouldn't <br>
be able to handle even a modest launch cadence.<br>
<br>
Starship requires FAR more propellant, I don't know what countries
south of the <br>
US have sufficient production capacity to even be considered. And
even if they <br>
are going to build the propellant generation themselves, that
takes a lot of <br>
electricity. And if they build the power generation as well, then
you need the <br>
skilled manpower to run everything.<br>
<br>
Tesla has pulled back it's plans to develop the production lines
for their next <br>
car in their new plant in Mexico because of the difficulty in
getting the <br>
engineers to move there for the months/years needed to bring
things up (they are <br>
instead going to do it in Austin). I would expect even more
problems trying to <br>
get suitable rocket engineers to move.<br>
<br>
And if they can do orbital refueling on a routine basis, I don't
think they need <br>
a more southerly launch pad, it doesn't gain _that_ much velocity<br>
<br>
So I don't see them trying to move south further.<br>
<br>
David Lang<br>
<br>
<br>
On Fri, 17 Nov 2023, Dave Taht via Starlink wrote:<br>
<br>
> Were I as ambitious as spacex, I would be looking for other
places to<br>
> launch from in the southern hemisphere or near the equator.<br>
><br>
> <a href="https://www.visualcapitalist.com/worlds-spaceports-mapped" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.visualcapitalist.com/worlds-spaceports-mapped/</a><br>
><br>
> On Fri, Nov 17, 2023 at 5:43 AM Ulrich Speidel via Starlink<br>
> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net"><starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net></a> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> OK, so this seems to be related to a somewhat bigger
development that Starlink is pushing through Tonga as the
regulatory authority:<br>
>><br>
>> <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/175ttvz/spacex_files_29988satellite_wband_network_using" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/175ttvz/spacex_files_29988satellite_wband_network_using/</a><br>
>> <a href="https://www.spaceintelreport.com/spacex-files-29988-satellite-w-band-network-using-kingdom-of-tonga-as-regulatory-home" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.spaceintelreport.com/spacex-files-29988-satellite-w-band-network-using-kingdom-of-tonga-as-regulatory-home/</a><br>
>><br>
>> ESIAFI 1 was bought by Tonga - it was the old COMSTAR 4
satellite and named after their women's rugby team.<br>
>><br>
>> Quite why they've chosen Tonga as regulatory home - no
idea. Maybe because they think Tonga owes them a favour. Currently
trying to find out more - stay tuned.<br>
>><br>
>> On 17/11/2023 6:29 am, David Fernández via Starlink
wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Hi Alex,<br>
>><br>
>> "A person on twitter seems to be saying this filing is
precisely the<br>
>> filing that spacex did at FCC"<br>
>><br>
>> Would you mind linking to that tweet, if it is public?<br>
>><br>
>> Thank you.<br>
>><br>
>> Regards,<br>
>><br>
>> David<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> > Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2023 14:27:03 +0100<br>
>> > From: Alexandre Petrescu
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com"><alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com></a><br>
>> > To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net">starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net</a><br>
>> > Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink filings for D-Band
via Tonga<br>
>> > Message-ID:
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:805d52ce-b517-49b9-a053-8306cd20b8aa@gmail.com"><805d52ce-b517-49b9-a053-8306cd20b8aa@gmail.com></a><br>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8;
format=flowed<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Towards clarification,<br>
>> ><br>
>> > The .mdb file of the ITU filing can be read with
Excel (tab Data -><br>
>> > leftmost button 'Access'). The .mdb is on the web
page of the ITU<br>
>> > filing, at the bottom of the page.<br>
>> > <a href="https://www.itu.int/ITU-R/space/asreceived/Publication/DisplayPublication/53068" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.itu.int/ITU-R/space/asreceived/Publication/DisplayPublication/53068</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> > It might be that this 'ESIAFI II' is just a name
because of some reason.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > There are some interesting dates like '06/03/2023',
'13/03/2023' and<br>
>> > '20/03/2023' and '6/10/2023'.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > There is much data about orbits, powers, beams that
I dont know how to<br>
>> > interpret. I would need the precise description of
the database format,<br>
>> > but I dont know where to get it from.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > The frequencies are listed, as I interpret these
fields: 123 GHz - 130<br>
>> > GHz centered on 126.5 GHz, 158.5-164 c 161.25 and
167-174.5 c 170.75.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > About D-band: I am not sure what is precisely a 'D
band' and I think<br>
>> > that discussion about bands is very complicated. I
know there is<br>
>> > wikipedia page about it, yes.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > A person on twitter seems to be saying this filing
is precisely the<br>
>> > filing that spacex did at FCC; but comparing the
numbers shows some<br>
>> > differences: total sats per plane differ at some
altitudes like at 525km<br>
>> > altitude: ITU says 3600 sats whereas FCC says 3360
sats. There can be<br>
>> > speculations as to why they differ as there can be
errors of various<br>
>> > people including myself.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > The person on twitter tells that ITU filing is in
this table, but I dont<br>
>> > know how he generated it. Not sure whether he made
some syntax error.<br>
>> ><br>
>> >> Altitude (km) Inclination (degrees) Satellites
per Plane Planes<br>
>> >> Total Satellites<br>
>> >> 340 53 110 48 5280<br>
>> >> 345 46 110 48 5280<br>
>> >> 350 38 110 48 5280<br>
>> >> 360 96.9 120 30 3600<br>
>> >> 525 53 120 28 3600 [nota by me: FCC says 3360
and not 3600, see<br>
>> >> table below]<br>
>> >> 530 43 120 28 3600<br>
>> >> 535 33 120 28 3600<br>
>> >> 604 148 12 12 144<br>
>> >> 614 115.7 18 18 324<br>
>> >><br>
>> ><br>
>> > I found this earlier FCC document has this table at
this URL<br>
>> > <a href="https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/FCC-22-91A1.pdf" moz-do-not-send="true">https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/FCC-22-91A1.pdf</a>
(not sure<br>
>> > whether it is the most authoritative, but at least
the mathematics<br>
>> > 28*120 at altitude 525 does make sense to be 3360).<br>
>> ><br>
>> >> Altitude (km) Inclination (degrees) Orbital
Planes sats/plane Total sats<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> 340 53 48 110 5280<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> 345 46 48 110 5280<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> 350 38 48 110 5280<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> 360 96.9 30 120 3600<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> 525 53 28 120 3360 [nota by me:<br>
>> >> 28*120 == 3360 indeed]<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> 530 43 28 120 3360<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> 535 33 28 120 3360<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> 604 148 12 12 144<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> 614 115.7 18 18 324<br>
>> >><br>
>> ><br>
>> > Alex<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > Le 16/11/2023 à 10:30, Alexandre Petrescu via
Starlink a écrit :<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Le 15/11/2023 à 16:48, David Fernández via
Starlink a écrit :<br>
>> >>> I have got news about the recent filing by
Starlink for the use of<br>
>> >>> frequencies in D-band:<br>
>> >>> <a href="https://www.itu.int/ITU-R/space/asreceived/Publication/DisplayPublication/53068" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.itu.int/ITU-R/space/asreceived/Publication/DisplayPublication/53068</a><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> This has been done via Tonga, not the USA,
and is for both, uplink and<br>
>> >>> downlink frequencies, although only downlink
seems to be allocated now<br>
>> >>> for satellite use.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Thanks for the pointer.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> It is the first time I hear about this 'ESIAFI
II' constellation. I<br>
>> >> understand it is a different thing than the
starlink existing<br>
>> >> constellation.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> It adds to the list of plans of LEO Internet
constellations (starlink,<br>
>> >> kuiper, oneweb etc.)<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Alex<br>
>> >><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> Regards,<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> David<br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Starlink mailing list<br>
>> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net">Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net</a><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink</a><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>>
****************************************************************<br>
>> Dr. Ulrich Speidel<br>
>><br>
>> School of Computer Science<br>
>><br>
>> Room 303S.594 (City Campus)<br>
>><br>
>> The University of Auckland<br>
>> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz">u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz</a><br>
>> <a href="http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/</a><br>
>>
****************************************************************<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
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><br>
><br>
><br>
> -- <br>
> :( My old R&D campus is up for sale: <a href="https://tinyurl.com/yurtlab" moz-do-not-send="true">https://tinyurl.com/yurtlab</a><br>
> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Starlink mailing list<br>
> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net">Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net</a><br>
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</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
****************************************************************
Dr. Ulrich Speidel
School of Computer Science
Room 303S.594 (City Campus)
The University of Auckland
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz">u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/">http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/</a>
****************************************************************
</pre>
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