<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">Gene, David,<div><br></div><div>Agreed that the technical problem is largely solved with cake & codel.</div><div><br></div><div>Also that demos are good. How to do one for this problem></div><div><br></div><div> — Jim<br><div><br><div><blockquote type="cite">The bandwidth mantra has been used for so long that a technical discussion cannot unseat the mantra.<br><div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div>Some technical parties use the mantra to sell more, faster, ineffective service. Gullible customers accept that they would be happy if they could afford even more speed.</div><div><br></div><div>Shouldn’t we create a demo to show the solution?</div><div>To show is more effective than to debate. It is impossible to explain to some people.</div><div>Has anyone tried to create a demo (to unseat the bandwidth mantra)? </div><div>Is an effective demo too complicated to create?</div><div>I’d be glad to participate in defining a demo and publicity campaign.</div><div><br>Gene<br></div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 15px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Apr 30, 2024, at 2:36 PM, David Lang <<a href="mailto:david@lang.hm">david@lang.hm</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div>On Tue, 30 Apr 2024, Eugene Y Chang via Starlink wrote:<br><br><blockquote type="cite">I am always surprised how complicated these discussions become. (Surprised mostly because I forgot the kind of issues this community care about.) The discussion doesn’t shed light on the following scenarios.<br><br>While watching stream content, activating controls needed to switch content sometimes (often?) have long pauses. I attribute that to buffer bloat and high latency.<br><br>With a happy household user watching streaming media, a second user could have terrible shopping experience with Amazon. The interactive response could be (is often) horrible. (Personally, I would be doing email and working on a shared doc. The Amazon analogy probably applies to more people.)<br><br>How can we deliver graceful performance to both persons in a household?<br>Is seeking graceful performance too complicated to improve?<br>(I said “graceful” to allow technical flexibility.)<br></blockquote><br>it's largely a solved problem from a technical point of view. fq_codel and cake solve this.<br><br>The solution is just not deployed widely, instead people argue that more bandwidth is needed instead.<br></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div></body></html>