<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Dave,<div class="">Thank you for calling attention to the RFC. I took a quick peek, and I need to put more time into reading the whole doc. It feels very intuitive.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">What I like is that it is written for incremental adoption. I will focus on that in my next pass. It opens the door to be incrementally deployed to pacify an influential squeaky wheel. I like the possibility that a happy squeaky wheel becomes a role model attracting more squeaky wheels until it makes more sense to just adopt broad deployment. If you read my earlier emails, you know I am in the hunt for an influential squeaky wheel. :P</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Anticipating more discussion in this direction, are there core router vendors that have a favorable view of L4S? Are there router implementations just waiting to be turned on?<br class=""><div class="">
<meta charset="UTF-8" class=""><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div dir="auto" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div><br class="">Gene<br class="">----------------------------------------------<br class="">Eugene Chang</div><div><br class=""></div><div><br class=""><br class=""></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
</div>
<div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On May 7, 2024, at 2:46 AM, Dave Collier-Brown via Starlink <<a href="mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net" class="">starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class="">
<div class=""><p class="">It has an RFC at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc9330/">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc9330/</a></p><p class="">I read it as a way to rapidly find the available bandwidth without the TCP "sawtooth". The paper cites fc_codel and research based on it.</p><p class="">I suspect <i class="">My Smarter Colleagues</i> know more (;-))<br class="">
</p><p class="">--dave<br class="">
</p><div class=""> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2024-05-07 08:13, David Fernández via Starlink wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAC=tZ0qZPDYtEN9_xxfoMWf+QAvyv2hWf+Mukr0nwizcKk36LQ@mail.gmail.com" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="">Is L4S a solution to bufferbloat? I have read that gamers are happy with it.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Sorry, I read it here, in Spanish:</div>
<div class=""><a href="https://www.adslzone.net/noticias/operadores/retardo-videojuegos-nokia-vodafone" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.adslzone.net/noticias/operadores/retardo-videojuegos-nokia-vodafone</a></div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Regards,</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">David F.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Date: Tue, 7 May 2024 06:50:41 -0400</div>
From: Rich Brown <<a href="mailto:richb.hanover@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">richb.hanover@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
To: Eugene Y Chang <<a href="mailto:eugene.chang@ieee.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">eugene.chang@ieee.org</a>><br class="">
Cc: Sebastian Moeller <<a href="mailto:moeller0@gmx.de" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">moeller0@gmx.de</a>>, Colin_Higbie<br class="">
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:CHigbie1@Higbie.name"><CHigbie1@Higbie.name></a>, Dave Taht via Starlink<br class="">
<<a href="mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net</a>><br class="">
Subject: Re: [Starlink] The "reasons" that bufferbloat isn't a problem<br class="">
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:175CC5C3-F70A-49E8-A84D-87E24C04EABD@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">175CC5C3-F70A-49E8-A84D-87E24C04EABD@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br class="">
<br class="">
Hi Gene,<br class="">
<br class="">
> On May 6, 2024, at 8:38 PM, Eugene Y Chang <<a href="mailto:eugene.chang@ieee.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">eugene.chang@ieee.org</a>> wrote:<br class="">
> <br class="">
> It seems like you signed off on this challenge. Don’t do that. Help give me the tools to push this to the next level.<br class="">
<br class="">
Not at all - I'm definitely signed up for this. But I collected all these points so we can be clear-eyed about the objections that people cite.
<br class="">
<br class="">
Bufferbloat definitely exists. And there are straightforward technical solutions. And as you say, our challenge is to find a way to build the case for broad adoption of these techniques.
<br class="">
<br class="">
Best regards,<br class="">
<br class="">
Rich<br class="">
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify
System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dave.collier-brown@indexexchange.com">dave.collier-brown@indexexchange.com</a> | -- Mark Twain</pre>
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