From williams.joe at gmail.com  Sat Sep 22 20:22:19 2012
From: williams.joe at gmail.com (Joe Williams)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 20:22:19 -0700
Subject: [Thumbgps-devel] Navisys GR-601W
Message-ID: <77FE49046AE948DDAAA7E2654D2D2DE0@gmail.com>

Are these units generally available yet? If so, where can I purchase one? If not, any idea when they will be? 

Thanks.

-Joe


-- 
Name: Joseph A. Williams
Email: williams.joe at gmail.com

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From esr at thyrsus.com  Sat Sep 22 21:33:54 2012
From: esr at thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 00:33:54 -0400
Subject: [Thumbgps-devel] Navisys GR-601W
In-Reply-To: <77FE49046AE948DDAAA7E2654D2D2DE0@gmail.com>
References: <77FE49046AE948DDAAA7E2654D2D2DE0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20120923043354.GA25903@thyrsus.com>

Joe Williams <williams.joe at gmail.com>:
> Are these units generally available yet? If so, where can I purchase one? If not, any idea when they will be? 

No U.S. retailer has stepped up yet. You can buy them qty100 from NaviSys. 
-- 
		<a href="http://www.catb.org/~esr/">Eric S. Raymond</a>

From jim at netgate.com  Sat Sep 22 22:07:43 2012
From: jim at netgate.com (Jim Thompson)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 00:07:43 -0500
Subject: [Thumbgps-devel] Navisys GR-601W
In-Reply-To: <20120923043354.GA25903@thyrsus.com>
References: <77FE49046AE948DDAAA7E2654D2D2DE0@gmail.com>
	<20120923043354.GA25903@thyrsus.com>
Message-ID: <35B82DFD-7BB2-4E85-8051-C661FFD19C04@netgate.com>

They don't work that we'll on FreeBSD. 
I've not yet tried Linux. 

Jim

On Sep 22, 2012, at 11:33 PM, "Eric S. Raymond" <esr at thyrsus.com> wrote:

> Joe Williams <williams.joe at gmail.com>:
>> Are these units generally available yet? If so, where can I purchase one? If not, any idea when they will be?
> 
> No U.S. retailer has stepped up yet. You can buy them qty100 from NaviSys. 
> -- 
>        <a href="http://www.catb.org/~esr/">Eric S. Raymond</a>
> _______________________________________________
> Thumbgps-devel mailing list
> Thumbgps-devel at lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/thumbgps-devel

From gem at rellim.com  Mon Sep 24 15:32:22 2012
From: gem at rellim.com (Gary E. Miller)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 15:32:22 -0700
Subject: [Thumbgps-devel] Navisys GR-601W
In-Reply-To: <35B82DFD-7BB2-4E85-8051-C661FFD19C04@netgate.com>
References: <77FE49046AE948DDAAA7E2654D2D2DE0@gmail.com>
	<20120923043354.GA25903@thyrsus.com>
	<35B82DFD-7BB2-4E85-8051-C661FFD19C04@netgate.com>
Message-ID: <20120924153222.25f3f04d.gem@rellim.com>

Yo Jim!

On Sun, 23 Sep 2012 00:07:43 -0500
Jim Thompson <jim at netgate.com> wrote:

> They don't work that we'll on FreeBSD. 

Really?  First I've heard of it.  What's the issue?

RGDS
GARY
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary E. Miller Rellim 109 NW Wilmington Ave., Suite E, Bend, OR 97701
	gem at rellim.com  Tel:+1(541)382-8588
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From jim at netgate.com  Mon Sep 24 18:49:42 2012
From: jim at netgate.com (Jim Thompson)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 20:49:42 -0500
Subject: [Thumbgps-devel] Navisys GR-601W
In-Reply-To: <20120924153222.25f3f04d.gem@rellim.com>
References: <77FE49046AE948DDAAA7E2654D2D2DE0@gmail.com>
	<20120923043354.GA25903@thyrsus.com>
	<35B82DFD-7BB2-4E85-8051-C661FFD19C04@netgate.com>
	<20120924153222.25f3f04d.gem@rellim.com>
Message-ID: <5CE648CE-F90F-423A-BFA8-7760E65D7296@netgate.com>


On Sep 24, 2012, at 5:32 PM, Gary E. Miller <gem at rellim.com> wrote:

> Yo Jim!
> 
> On Sun, 23 Sep 2012 00:07:43 -0500
> Jim Thompson <jim at netgate.com> wrote:
> 
>> They don't work that we'll on FreeBSD. 
> 
> Really?  First I've heard of it.  What's the issue?

In a word: jitter

The PPS API described in RFC2783 isn't supported on USB serial ports on FreeBSD 8.3 or 9.0

Note that the PPS API  *is* supported:
http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/sys/timepps.h?v=FREEBSD9
http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/kern/kern_ntptime.c?v=FREEBSD9

But that timepps.h is only included via uart/uart_bus
http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/dev/uart/uart_bus.h?v=FREEBSD9

Compare:
http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/dev/uart/uart_core.c?v=FREEBSD9
and
http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/dev/sio/sio.c?v=FREEBSD9
and
http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/pc98/cbus/sio.c?v=FREEBSD9

to anything found in

http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/dev/usb/serial/?v=FREEBSD9




From gem at rellim.com  Mon Sep 24 18:58:26 2012
From: gem at rellim.com (Gary E. Miller)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 18:58:26 -0700
Subject: [Thumbgps-devel] Navisys GR-601W
In-Reply-To: <5CE648CE-F90F-423A-BFA8-7760E65D7296@netgate.com>
References: <77FE49046AE948DDAAA7E2654D2D2DE0@gmail.com>
	<20120923043354.GA25903@thyrsus.com>
	<35B82DFD-7BB2-4E85-8051-C661FFD19C04@netgate.com>
	<20120924153222.25f3f04d.gem@rellim.com>
	<5CE648CE-F90F-423A-BFA8-7760E65D7296@netgate.com>
Message-ID: <20120924185826.610b061d.gem@rellim.com>

Yo Jim!

On Mon, 24 Sep 2012 20:49:42 -0500
Jim Thompson <jim at netgate.com> wrote:

> 
> On Sep 24, 2012, at 5:32 PM, Gary E. Miller <gem at rellim.com> wrote:
> 
> > Yo Jim!
> > 
> > On Sun, 23 Sep 2012 00:07:43 -0500
> > Jim Thompson <jim at netgate.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> They don't work that we'll on FreeBSD. 
> > 
> > Really?  First I've heard of it.  What's the issue?
> 
> In a word: jitter

And how much jitter?  The lack of RFC2783 should not be noticeable since
the jitter on the USB serial is so large.  RFC2783 helps in the
micro Second range and the USB serial is in the milli Second range.

So with, and without you are going to get about 1 milli Second jitter.

So, what problem are you pointing up with *BSD?

> Compare:
> http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/dev/uart/uart_core.c?v=FREEBSD9
> and
> http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/dev/sio/sio.c?v=FREEBSD9
> and
> http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/pc98/cbus/sio.c?v=FREEBSD9
> 
> to anything found in
> 
> http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/dev/usb/serial/?v=FREEBSD9

Not sure what you are trying to show me.

RGDS
GARY
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary E. Miller Rellim 109 NW Wilmington Ave., Suite E, Bend, OR 97701
	gem at rellim.com  Tel:+1(541)382-8588
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From jim at netgate.com  Mon Sep 24 19:04:14 2012
From: jim at netgate.com (Jim Thompson)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 21:04:14 -0500
Subject: [Thumbgps-devel] Navisys GR-601W
In-Reply-To: <20120924185826.610b061d.gem@rellim.com>
References: <77FE49046AE948DDAAA7E2654D2D2DE0@gmail.com>
	<20120923043354.GA25903@thyrsus.com>
	<35B82DFD-7BB2-4E85-8051-C661FFD19C04@netgate.com>
	<20120924153222.25f3f04d.gem@rellim.com>
	<5CE648CE-F90F-423A-BFA8-7760E65D7296@netgate.com>
	<20120924185826.610b061d.gem@rellim.com>
Message-ID: <5140B6AE-C217-4494-952A-B30292F73902@netgate.com>


ntpd won't enable the PPS stuff, because the ioctl to 'discover' same fails.

covered on-list back in June/July


On Sep 24, 2012, at 8:58 PM, "Gary E. Miller" <gem at rellim.com> wrote:

> Yo Jim!
> 
> On Mon, 24 Sep 2012 20:49:42 -0500
> Jim Thompson <jim at netgate.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On Sep 24, 2012, at 5:32 PM, Gary E. Miller <gem at rellim.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Yo Jim!
>>> 
>>> On Sun, 23 Sep 2012 00:07:43 -0500
>>> Jim Thompson <jim at netgate.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> They don't work that we'll on FreeBSD. 
>>> 
>>> Really?  First I've heard of it.  What's the issue?
>> 
>> In a word: jitter
> 
> And how much jitter?  The lack of RFC2783 should not be noticeable since
> the jitter on the USB serial is so large.  RFC2783 helps in the
> micro Second range and the USB serial is in the milli Second range.
> 
> So with, and without you are going to get about 1 milli Second jitter.
> 
> So, what problem are you pointing up with *BSD?
> 
>> Compare:
>> http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/dev/uart/uart_core.c?v=FREEBSD9
>> and
>> http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/dev/sio/sio.c?v=FREEBSD9
>> and
>> http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/pc98/cbus/sio.c?v=FREEBSD9
>> 
>> to anything found in
>> 
>> http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/dev/usb/serial/?v=FREEBSD9
> 
> Not sure what you are trying to show me.
> 
> RGDS
> GARY
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Gary E. Miller Rellim 109 NW Wilmington Ave., Suite E, Bend, OR 97701
> 	gem at rellim.com  Tel:+1(541)382-8588


From gem at rellim.com  Mon Sep 24 19:20:03 2012
From: gem at rellim.com (Gary E. Miller)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 19:20:03 -0700
Subject: [Thumbgps-devel] Navisys GR-601W
In-Reply-To: <5140B6AE-C217-4494-952A-B30292F73902@netgate.com>
References: <77FE49046AE948DDAAA7E2654D2D2DE0@gmail.com>
	<20120923043354.GA25903@thyrsus.com>
	<35B82DFD-7BB2-4E85-8051-C661FFD19C04@netgate.com>
	<20120924153222.25f3f04d.gem@rellim.com>
	<5CE648CE-F90F-423A-BFA8-7760E65D7296@netgate.com>
	<20120924185826.610b061d.gem@rellim.com>
	<5140B6AE-C217-4494-952A-B30292F73902@netgate.com>
Message-ID: <20120924192003.3fa060d6.gem@rellim.com>

Yo Jim!

On Mon, 24 Sep 2012 21:04:14 -0500
Jim Thompson <jim at netgate.com> wrote:

> ntpd won't enable the PPS stuff, because the ioctl to 'discover' same
> fails.

Thus one uses gpsd.

> covered on-list back in June/July

Moot.

RGDS
GARY
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary E. Miller Rellim 109 NW Wilmington Ave., Suite E, Bend, OR 97701
	gem at rellim.com  Tel:+1(541)382-8588

> On Sep 24, 2012, at 8:58 PM, "Gary E. Miller" <gem at rellim.com> wrote:
> 
> > Yo Jim!
> > 
> > On Mon, 24 Sep 2012 20:49:42 -0500
> > Jim Thompson <jim at netgate.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> 
> >> On Sep 24, 2012, at 5:32 PM, Gary E. Miller <gem at rellim.com> wrote:
> >> 
> >>> Yo Jim!
> >>> 
> >>> On Sun, 23 Sep 2012 00:07:43 -0500
> >>> Jim Thompson <jim at netgate.com> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>>> They don't work that we'll on FreeBSD. 
> >>> 
> >>> Really?  First I've heard of it.  What's the issue?
> >> 
> >> In a word: jitter
> > 
> > And how much jitter?  The lack of RFC2783 should not be noticeable
> > since the jitter on the USB serial is so large.  RFC2783 helps in
> > the micro Second range and the USB serial is in the milli Second
> > range.
> > 
> > So with, and without you are going to get about 1 milli Second
> > jitter.
> > 
> > So, what problem are you pointing up with *BSD?
> > 
> >> Compare:
> >> http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/dev/uart/uart_core.c?v=FREEBSD9
> >> and
> >> http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/dev/sio/sio.c?v=FREEBSD9
> >> and
> >> http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/pc98/cbus/sio.c?v=FREEBSD9
> >> 
> >> to anything found in
> >> 
> >> http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/dev/usb/serial/?v=FREEBSD9
> > 
> > Not sure what you are trying to show me.
> > 
> > RGDS
> > GARY
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Gary E. Miller Rellim 109 NW Wilmington Ave., Suite E, Bend, OR
> > 97701 gem at rellim.com  Tel:+1(541)382-8588
> 



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From williams.joe at gmail.com  Wed Sep 26 12:52:46 2012
From: williams.joe at gmail.com (Joe Williams)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 12:52:46 -0700
Subject: [Thumbgps-devel] Navisys GR-601W
In-Reply-To: <20120923043354.GA25903@thyrsus.com>
References: <77FE49046AE948DDAAA7E2654D2D2DE0@gmail.com>
	<20120923043354.GA25903@thyrsus.com>
Message-ID: <1CA4CA0EC46A430D81560DB31F508CFD@gmail.com>

On Saturday, September 22, 2012 at 9:33 PM, Eric S. Raymond wrote:
> Joe Williams <williams.joe at gmail.com (mailto:williams.joe at gmail.com)>:
> > Are these units generally available yet? If so, where can I purchase one? If not, any idea when they will be? 
> 
> 
> No U.S. retailer has stepped up yet. You can buy them qty100 from NaviSys.

I have no desire to own 100 of these. :D What is the next best USB based device?

-Joe
 

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From gem at rellim.com  Wed Sep 26 13:00:37 2012
From: gem at rellim.com (Gary E. Miller)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 13:00:37 -0700
Subject: [Thumbgps-devel] Navisys GR-601W
In-Reply-To: <1CA4CA0EC46A430D81560DB31F508CFD@gmail.com>
References: <77FE49046AE948DDAAA7E2654D2D2DE0@gmail.com>
	<20120923043354.GA25903@thyrsus.com>
	<1CA4CA0EC46A430D81560DB31F508CFD@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20120926130037.1d8a14c6.gem@rellim.com>

Yo Joe!

On Wed, 26 Sep 2012 12:52:46 -0700
Joe Williams <williams.joe at gmail.com> wrote:

> > No U.S. retailer has stepped up yet. You can buy them qty100 from
> > NaviSys.
> 
> I have no desire to own 100 of these. :D What is the next best USB
> based device?

We know of no other USB GPS providing PPS.

If enough people wanted a GR-601W I would do the bulk order and reship.
So far I have only heard of a few people ready to buy.

RGDS
GARY
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary E. Miller Rellim 109 NW Wilmington Ave., Suite E, Bend, OR 97701
	gem at rellim.com  Tel:+1(541)382-8588
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From dave.taht at gmail.com  Wed Sep 26 13:05:43 2012
From: dave.taht at gmail.com (Dave Taht)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 13:05:43 -0700
Subject: [Thumbgps-devel] Navisys GR-601W
In-Reply-To: <20120926130037.1d8a14c6.gem@rellim.com>
References: <77FE49046AE948DDAAA7E2654D2D2DE0@gmail.com>
	<20120923043354.GA25903@thyrsus.com>
	<1CA4CA0EC46A430D81560DB31F508CFD@gmail.com>
	<20120926130037.1d8a14c6.gem@rellim.com>
Message-ID: <CAA93jw6VLB4GP+bZN55Gd+58+7SJja89iON2=mOKgwEoPgoYXg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 1:00 PM, Gary E. Miller <gem at rellim.com> wrote:
> Yo Joe!
>
> On Wed, 26 Sep 2012 12:52:46 -0700
> Joe Williams <williams.joe at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > No U.S. retailer has stepped up yet. You can buy them qty100 from
>> > NaviSys.
>>
>> I have no desire to own 100 of these. :D What is the next best USB
>> based device?
>
> We know of no other USB GPS providing PPS.
>
> If enough people wanted a GR-601W I would do the bulk order and reship.
> So far I have only heard of a few people ready to buy.
>
> RGDS
> GARY

Yea, well as one of my plans was if gary didn't step up, would be to
try a pre-order campaign
on amazon (via my company, teklibre) to get to the 100 unit goal.
Actually, to get a custom silkscreen will take 700...

Alternatively use 'em as kickstarter/indigogo swag.

or make it part of the worldwide testbed rollout.

Or all three.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Gary E. Miller Rellim 109 NW Wilmington Ave., Suite E, Bend, OR 97701
>         gem at rellim.com  Tel:+1(541)382-8588
>
> _______________________________________________
> Thumbgps-devel mailing list
> Thumbgps-devel at lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/thumbgps-devel
>



-- 
Dave T?ht
http://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/cerowrt/wiki - "3.3.8-17 is out
with fq_codel!"

From williams.joe at gmail.com  Wed Sep 26 13:05:56 2012
From: williams.joe at gmail.com (Joe Williams)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 13:05:56 -0700
Subject: [Thumbgps-devel] Navisys GR-601W
In-Reply-To: <20120926130037.1d8a14c6.gem@rellim.com>
References: <77FE49046AE948DDAAA7E2654D2D2DE0@gmail.com>
	<20120923043354.GA25903@thyrsus.com>
	<1CA4CA0EC46A430D81560DB31F508CFD@gmail.com>
	<20120926130037.1d8a14c6.gem@rellim.com>
Message-ID: <5B316595DDA141AEB0E20EF6FD368335@gmail.com>

On Wednesday, September 26, 2012 at 1:00 PM, Gary E. Miller wrote:
> Yo Joe!
> 
> On Wed, 26 Sep 2012 12:52:46 -0700
> Joe Williams <williams.joe at gmail.com (mailto:williams.joe at gmail.com)> wrote:
> 
> > > No U.S. retailer has stepped up yet. You can buy them qty100 from
> > > NaviSys.
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > I have no desire to own 100 of these. :D What is the next best USB
> > based device?
> > 
> 
> 
> We know of no other USB GPS providing PPS.
> 
> If enough people wanted a GR-601W I would do the bulk order and reship.
> So far I have only heard of a few people ready to buy.
> 
> 


FWIW I would be willing to buy one initially and after testing possibly a few (6 or so) more.

-Joe
 

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From williams.joe at gmail.com  Sat Sep 22 23:22:19 2012
From: williams.joe at gmail.com (Joe Williams)
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 20:22:19 -0700
Subject: [Thumbgps-devel] Navisys GR-601W
Message-ID: <77FE49046AE948DDAAA7E2654D2D2DE0@gmail.com>

Are these units generally available yet? If so, where can I purchase one? If not, any idea when they will be? 

Thanks.

-Joe


-- 
Name: Joseph A. Williams
Email: williams.joe at gmail.com

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From esr at thyrsus.com  Sun Sep 23 00:33:54 2012
From: esr at thyrsus.com (Eric S. Raymond)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 00:33:54 -0400
Subject: [Thumbgps-devel] Navisys GR-601W
In-Reply-To: <77FE49046AE948DDAAA7E2654D2D2DE0@gmail.com>
References: <77FE49046AE948DDAAA7E2654D2D2DE0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20120923043354.GA25903@thyrsus.com>

Joe Williams <williams.joe at gmail.com>:
> Are these units generally available yet? If so, where can I purchase one? If not, any idea when they will be? 

No U.S. retailer has stepped up yet. You can buy them qty100 from NaviSys. 
-- 
		<a href="http://www.catb.org/~esr/">Eric S. Raymond</a>


From jim at netgate.com  Sun Sep 23 01:07:43 2012
From: jim at netgate.com (Jim Thompson)
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2012 00:07:43 -0500
Subject: [Thumbgps-devel] Navisys GR-601W
In-Reply-To: <20120923043354.GA25903@thyrsus.com>
References: <77FE49046AE948DDAAA7E2654D2D2DE0@gmail.com>
	<20120923043354.GA25903@thyrsus.com>
Message-ID: <35B82DFD-7BB2-4E85-8051-C661FFD19C04@netgate.com>

They don't work that we'll on FreeBSD. 
I've not yet tried Linux. 

Jim

On Sep 22, 2012, at 11:33 PM, "Eric S. Raymond" <esr at thyrsus.com> wrote:

> Joe Williams <williams.joe at gmail.com>:
>> Are these units generally available yet? If so, where can I purchase one? If not, any idea when they will be?
> 
> No U.S. retailer has stepped up yet. You can buy them qty100 from NaviSys. 
> -- 
>        <a href="http://www.catb.org/~esr/">Eric S. Raymond</a>
> _______________________________________________
> Thumbgps-devel mailing list
> Thumbgps-devel at lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/thumbgps-devel


From gem at rellim.com  Mon Sep 24 18:32:22 2012
From: gem at rellim.com (Gary E. Miller)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 15:32:22 -0700
Subject: [Thumbgps-devel] Navisys GR-601W
In-Reply-To: <35B82DFD-7BB2-4E85-8051-C661FFD19C04@netgate.com>
References: <77FE49046AE948DDAAA7E2654D2D2DE0@gmail.com>
	<20120923043354.GA25903@thyrsus.com>
	<35B82DFD-7BB2-4E85-8051-C661FFD19C04@netgate.com>
Message-ID: <20120924153222.25f3f04d.gem@rellim.com>

Yo Jim!

On Sun, 23 Sep 2012 00:07:43 -0500
Jim Thompson <jim at netgate.com> wrote:

> They don't work that we'll on FreeBSD. 

Really?  First I've heard of it.  What's the issue?

RGDS
GARY
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary E. Miller Rellim 109 NW Wilmington Ave., Suite E, Bend, OR 97701
	gem at rellim.com  Tel:+1(541)382-8588
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From jim at netgate.com  Mon Sep 24 21:49:42 2012
From: jim at netgate.com (Jim Thompson)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 20:49:42 -0500
Subject: [Thumbgps-devel] Navisys GR-601W
In-Reply-To: <20120924153222.25f3f04d.gem@rellim.com>
References: <77FE49046AE948DDAAA7E2654D2D2DE0@gmail.com>
	<20120923043354.GA25903@thyrsus.com>
	<35B82DFD-7BB2-4E85-8051-C661FFD19C04@netgate.com>
	<20120924153222.25f3f04d.gem@rellim.com>
Message-ID: <5CE648CE-F90F-423A-BFA8-7760E65D7296@netgate.com>


On Sep 24, 2012, at 5:32 PM, Gary E. Miller <gem at rellim.com> wrote:

> Yo Jim!
> 
> On Sun, 23 Sep 2012 00:07:43 -0500
> Jim Thompson <jim at netgate.com> wrote:
> 
>> They don't work that we'll on FreeBSD. 
> 
> Really?  First I've heard of it.  What's the issue?

In a word: jitter

The PPS API described in RFC2783 isn't supported on USB serial ports on FreeBSD 8.3 or 9.0

Note that the PPS API  *is* supported:
http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/sys/timepps.h?v=FREEBSD9
http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/kern/kern_ntptime.c?v=FREEBSD9

But that timepps.h is only included via uart/uart_bus
http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/dev/uart/uart_bus.h?v=FREEBSD9

Compare:
http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/dev/uart/uart_core.c?v=FREEBSD9
and
http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/dev/sio/sio.c?v=FREEBSD9
and
http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/pc98/cbus/sio.c?v=FREEBSD9

to anything found in

http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/dev/usb/serial/?v=FREEBSD9





From gem at rellim.com  Mon Sep 24 21:58:26 2012
From: gem at rellim.com (Gary E. Miller)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 18:58:26 -0700
Subject: [Thumbgps-devel] Navisys GR-601W
In-Reply-To: <5CE648CE-F90F-423A-BFA8-7760E65D7296@netgate.com>
References: <77FE49046AE948DDAAA7E2654D2D2DE0@gmail.com>
	<20120923043354.GA25903@thyrsus.com>
	<35B82DFD-7BB2-4E85-8051-C661FFD19C04@netgate.com>
	<20120924153222.25f3f04d.gem@rellim.com>
	<5CE648CE-F90F-423A-BFA8-7760E65D7296@netgate.com>
Message-ID: <20120924185826.610b061d.gem@rellim.com>

Yo Jim!

On Mon, 24 Sep 2012 20:49:42 -0500
Jim Thompson <jim at netgate.com> wrote:

> 
> On Sep 24, 2012, at 5:32 PM, Gary E. Miller <gem at rellim.com> wrote:
> 
> > Yo Jim!
> > 
> > On Sun, 23 Sep 2012 00:07:43 -0500
> > Jim Thompson <jim at netgate.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> They don't work that we'll on FreeBSD. 
> > 
> > Really?  First I've heard of it.  What's the issue?
> 
> In a word: jitter

And how much jitter?  The lack of RFC2783 should not be noticeable since
the jitter on the USB serial is so large.  RFC2783 helps in the
micro Second range and the USB serial is in the milli Second range.

So with, and without you are going to get about 1 milli Second jitter.

So, what problem are you pointing up with *BSD?

> Compare:
> http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/dev/uart/uart_core.c?v=FREEBSD9
> and
> http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/dev/sio/sio.c?v=FREEBSD9
> and
> http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/pc98/cbus/sio.c?v=FREEBSD9
> 
> to anything found in
> 
> http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/dev/usb/serial/?v=FREEBSD9

Not sure what you are trying to show me.

RGDS
GARY
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary E. Miller Rellim 109 NW Wilmington Ave., Suite E, Bend, OR 97701
	gem at rellim.com  Tel:+1(541)382-8588
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From jim at netgate.com  Mon Sep 24 22:04:14 2012
From: jim at netgate.com (Jim Thompson)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 21:04:14 -0500
Subject: [Thumbgps-devel] Navisys GR-601W
In-Reply-To: <20120924185826.610b061d.gem@rellim.com>
References: <77FE49046AE948DDAAA7E2654D2D2DE0@gmail.com>
	<20120923043354.GA25903@thyrsus.com>
	<35B82DFD-7BB2-4E85-8051-C661FFD19C04@netgate.com>
	<20120924153222.25f3f04d.gem@rellim.com>
	<5CE648CE-F90F-423A-BFA8-7760E65D7296@netgate.com>
	<20120924185826.610b061d.gem@rellim.com>
Message-ID: <5140B6AE-C217-4494-952A-B30292F73902@netgate.com>


ntpd won't enable the PPS stuff, because the ioctl to 'discover' same fails.

covered on-list back in June/July


On Sep 24, 2012, at 8:58 PM, "Gary E. Miller" <gem at rellim.com> wrote:

> Yo Jim!
> 
> On Mon, 24 Sep 2012 20:49:42 -0500
> Jim Thompson <jim at netgate.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On Sep 24, 2012, at 5:32 PM, Gary E. Miller <gem at rellim.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Yo Jim!
>>> 
>>> On Sun, 23 Sep 2012 00:07:43 -0500
>>> Jim Thompson <jim at netgate.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> They don't work that we'll on FreeBSD. 
>>> 
>>> Really?  First I've heard of it.  What's the issue?
>> 
>> In a word: jitter
> 
> And how much jitter?  The lack of RFC2783 should not be noticeable since
> the jitter on the USB serial is so large.  RFC2783 helps in the
> micro Second range and the USB serial is in the milli Second range.
> 
> So with, and without you are going to get about 1 milli Second jitter.
> 
> So, what problem are you pointing up with *BSD?
> 
>> Compare:
>> http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/dev/uart/uart_core.c?v=FREEBSD9
>> and
>> http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/dev/sio/sio.c?v=FREEBSD9
>> and
>> http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/pc98/cbus/sio.c?v=FREEBSD9
>> 
>> to anything found in
>> 
>> http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/dev/usb/serial/?v=FREEBSD9
> 
> Not sure what you are trying to show me.
> 
> RGDS
> GARY
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Gary E. Miller Rellim 109 NW Wilmington Ave., Suite E, Bend, OR 97701
> 	gem at rellim.com  Tel:+1(541)382-8588



From gem at rellim.com  Mon Sep 24 22:20:03 2012
From: gem at rellim.com (Gary E. Miller)
Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2012 19:20:03 -0700
Subject: [Thumbgps-devel] Navisys GR-601W
In-Reply-To: <5140B6AE-C217-4494-952A-B30292F73902@netgate.com>
References: <77FE49046AE948DDAAA7E2654D2D2DE0@gmail.com>
	<20120923043354.GA25903@thyrsus.com>
	<35B82DFD-7BB2-4E85-8051-C661FFD19C04@netgate.com>
	<20120924153222.25f3f04d.gem@rellim.com>
	<5CE648CE-F90F-423A-BFA8-7760E65D7296@netgate.com>
	<20120924185826.610b061d.gem@rellim.com>
	<5140B6AE-C217-4494-952A-B30292F73902@netgate.com>
Message-ID: <20120924192003.3fa060d6.gem@rellim.com>

Yo Jim!

On Mon, 24 Sep 2012 21:04:14 -0500
Jim Thompson <jim at netgate.com> wrote:

> ntpd won't enable the PPS stuff, because the ioctl to 'discover' same
> fails.

Thus one uses gpsd.

> covered on-list back in June/July

Moot.

RGDS
GARY
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary E. Miller Rellim 109 NW Wilmington Ave., Suite E, Bend, OR 97701
	gem at rellim.com  Tel:+1(541)382-8588

> On Sep 24, 2012, at 8:58 PM, "Gary E. Miller" <gem at rellim.com> wrote:
> 
> > Yo Jim!
> > 
> > On Mon, 24 Sep 2012 20:49:42 -0500
> > Jim Thompson <jim at netgate.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> 
> >> On Sep 24, 2012, at 5:32 PM, Gary E. Miller <gem at rellim.com> wrote:
> >> 
> >>> Yo Jim!
> >>> 
> >>> On Sun, 23 Sep 2012 00:07:43 -0500
> >>> Jim Thompson <jim at netgate.com> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>>> They don't work that we'll on FreeBSD. 
> >>> 
> >>> Really?  First I've heard of it.  What's the issue?
> >> 
> >> In a word: jitter
> > 
> > And how much jitter?  The lack of RFC2783 should not be noticeable
> > since the jitter on the USB serial is so large.  RFC2783 helps in
> > the micro Second range and the USB serial is in the milli Second
> > range.
> > 
> > So with, and without you are going to get about 1 milli Second
> > jitter.
> > 
> > So, what problem are you pointing up with *BSD?
> > 
> >> Compare:
> >> http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/dev/uart/uart_core.c?v=FREEBSD9
> >> and
> >> http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/dev/sio/sio.c?v=FREEBSD9
> >> and
> >> http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/pc98/cbus/sio.c?v=FREEBSD9
> >> 
> >> to anything found in
> >> 
> >> http://fxr.watson.org/fxr/source/dev/usb/serial/?v=FREEBSD9
> > 
> > Not sure what you are trying to show me.
> > 
> > RGDS
> > GARY
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Gary E. Miller Rellim 109 NW Wilmington Ave., Suite E, Bend, OR
> > 97701 gem at rellim.com  Tel:+1(541)382-8588
> 



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From williams.joe at gmail.com  Wed Sep 26 15:52:46 2012
From: williams.joe at gmail.com (Joe Williams)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 12:52:46 -0700
Subject: [Thumbgps-devel] Navisys GR-601W
In-Reply-To: <20120923043354.GA25903@thyrsus.com>
References: <77FE49046AE948DDAAA7E2654D2D2DE0@gmail.com>
	<20120923043354.GA25903@thyrsus.com>
Message-ID: <1CA4CA0EC46A430D81560DB31F508CFD@gmail.com>

On Saturday, September 22, 2012 at 9:33 PM, Eric S. Raymond wrote:
> Joe Williams <williams.joe at gmail.com (mailto:williams.joe at gmail.com)>:
> > Are these units generally available yet? If so, where can I purchase one? If not, any idea when they will be? 
> 
> 
> No U.S. retailer has stepped up yet. You can buy them qty100 from NaviSys.

I have no desire to own 100 of these. :D What is the next best USB based device?

-Joe
 

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From gem at rellim.com  Wed Sep 26 16:00:37 2012
From: gem at rellim.com (Gary E. Miller)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 13:00:37 -0700
Subject: [Thumbgps-devel] Navisys GR-601W
In-Reply-To: <1CA4CA0EC46A430D81560DB31F508CFD@gmail.com>
References: <77FE49046AE948DDAAA7E2654D2D2DE0@gmail.com>
	<20120923043354.GA25903@thyrsus.com>
	<1CA4CA0EC46A430D81560DB31F508CFD@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20120926130037.1d8a14c6.gem@rellim.com>

Yo Joe!

On Wed, 26 Sep 2012 12:52:46 -0700
Joe Williams <williams.joe at gmail.com> wrote:

> > No U.S. retailer has stepped up yet. You can buy them qty100 from
> > NaviSys.
> 
> I have no desire to own 100 of these. :D What is the next best USB
> based device?

We know of no other USB GPS providing PPS.

If enough people wanted a GR-601W I would do the bulk order and reship.
So far I have only heard of a few people ready to buy.

RGDS
GARY
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary E. Miller Rellim 109 NW Wilmington Ave., Suite E, Bend, OR 97701
	gem at rellim.com  Tel:+1(541)382-8588
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From dave.taht at gmail.com  Wed Sep 26 16:05:43 2012
From: dave.taht at gmail.com (Dave Taht)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 13:05:43 -0700
Subject: [Thumbgps-devel] Navisys GR-601W
In-Reply-To: <20120926130037.1d8a14c6.gem@rellim.com>
References: <77FE49046AE948DDAAA7E2654D2D2DE0@gmail.com>
	<20120923043354.GA25903@thyrsus.com>
	<1CA4CA0EC46A430D81560DB31F508CFD@gmail.com>
	<20120926130037.1d8a14c6.gem@rellim.com>
Message-ID: <CAA93jw6VLB4GP+bZN55Gd+58+7SJja89iON2=mOKgwEoPgoYXg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 1:00 PM, Gary E. Miller <gem at rellim.com> wrote:
> Yo Joe!
>
> On Wed, 26 Sep 2012 12:52:46 -0700
> Joe Williams <williams.joe at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > No U.S. retailer has stepped up yet. You can buy them qty100 from
>> > NaviSys.
>>
>> I have no desire to own 100 of these. :D What is the next best USB
>> based device?
>
> We know of no other USB GPS providing PPS.
>
> If enough people wanted a GR-601W I would do the bulk order and reship.
> So far I have only heard of a few people ready to buy.
>
> RGDS
> GARY

Yea, well as one of my plans was if gary didn't step up, would be to
try a pre-order campaign
on amazon (via my company, teklibre) to get to the 100 unit goal.
Actually, to get a custom silkscreen will take 700...

Alternatively use 'em as kickstarter/indigogo swag.

or make it part of the worldwide testbed rollout.

Or all three.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Gary E. Miller Rellim 109 NW Wilmington Ave., Suite E, Bend, OR 97701
>         gem at rellim.com  Tel:+1(541)382-8588
>
> _______________________________________________
> Thumbgps-devel mailing list
> Thumbgps-devel at lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/thumbgps-devel
>



-- 
Dave Täht
http://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/cerowrt/wiki - "3.3.8-17 is out
with fq_codel!"


From williams.joe at gmail.com  Wed Sep 26 16:05:56 2012
From: williams.joe at gmail.com (Joe Williams)
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 13:05:56 -0700
Subject: [Thumbgps-devel] Navisys GR-601W
In-Reply-To: <20120926130037.1d8a14c6.gem@rellim.com>
References: <77FE49046AE948DDAAA7E2654D2D2DE0@gmail.com>
	<20120923043354.GA25903@thyrsus.com>
	<1CA4CA0EC46A430D81560DB31F508CFD@gmail.com>
	<20120926130037.1d8a14c6.gem@rellim.com>
Message-ID: <5B316595DDA141AEB0E20EF6FD368335@gmail.com>

On Wednesday, September 26, 2012 at 1:00 PM, Gary E. Miller wrote:
> Yo Joe!
> 
> On Wed, 26 Sep 2012 12:52:46 -0700
> Joe Williams <williams.joe at gmail.com (mailto:williams.joe at gmail.com)> wrote:
> 
> > > No U.S. retailer has stepped up yet. You can buy them qty100 from
> > > NaviSys.
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > I have no desire to own 100 of these. :D What is the next best USB
> > based device?
> > 
> 
> 
> We know of no other USB GPS providing PPS.
> 
> If enough people wanted a GR-601W I would do the bulk order and reship.
> So far I have only heard of a few people ready to buy.
> 
> 


FWIW I would be willing to buy one initially and after testing possibly a few (6 or so) more.

-Joe
 

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