From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from bobcat.rjmcmahon.com (bobcat.rjmcmahon.com [45.33.58.123]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 376203B29E; Sun, 19 Mar 2023 17:00:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.rjmcmahon.com (bobcat.rjmcmahon.com [45.33.58.123]) by bobcat.rjmcmahon.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 3E1301B25F; Sun, 19 Mar 2023 14:00:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 bobcat.rjmcmahon.com 3E1301B25F DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rjmcmahon.com; s=bobcat; t=1679259635; bh=MqckX93Ps/S+WoN+0PcxO86qdt/xQH+i0Ue2QoLnBZw=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=SyUvAcrUm30o1cNhleYIOs6x2wyCJ1NmAnrpGHn/FfFbSaigwjwcg8jU3nWHieJiR Rr51a0PaKtjySY1N3AKYIsnBPCuypDfe/J+F0e9udgwpN50nttrwAIcaL3uw8RyaFw KHVy1vlyBvZ17sXWLFF6cVKfwe+x1L4UU8+J4GSs= MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2023 14:00:35 -0700 From: rjmcmahon To: Michael Richardson Cc: dan , Rpm , libreqos , Dave Taht via Starlink , bloat In-Reply-To: <2885829.1679221616@dyas> References: <1672786712.106922180@apps.rackspace.com> <77CCAD19-07E0-4F9E-88C1-D207CF7BF376@cable.comcast.com> <83ffc0dad19e3343e49271889369cefc@rjmcmahon.com> <3CD0B9E6-0B2A-4A70-8F53-ED0822DF77A6@gmx.de> <13DE6E53-665F-4C20-BBE2-70E685421E9D@gmx.de> <22C819FA-DDD7-4B9B-8C09-8008D4273287@gmx.de> <5e7fac51071bdbb20837e72e7eedfc7c@rjmcmahon.com> <3f45d2a0b6e46d7b2775fb801e805f93@rjmcmahon.com> <70F71290-C6CB-4D19-8A88-F0F17C0BDDA2@gmx.de> <5e0cd693c4749d128dbb48d6c1129071@rjmcmahon.com> <2ab2983d-6beb-49cb-8c35-e481cbfdc7a3@Spark> <8F56CCA3-61C4-475F-975D-99D851C6A7CF@gmx.de> <1d6c10c9a692bb3f2869fb1b40fa449a@rjmcmahon.com> <005d1e7e3e1d19bce308436e46a3ec5e@rjmcmahon.com> <569691b3e7dfc57bbf98c4fc168fc6cf@rjmcmahon.com> <2885829.1679221616@dyas> Message-ID: <0649f7dc2b6e7ca1634b675dc6f9d953@rjmcmahon.com> X-Sender: rjmcmahon@rjmcmahon.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [Rpm] On metrics X-BeenThere: rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: revolutions per minute - a new metric for measuring responsiveness List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2023 21:00:36 -0000 Hi All, It seems getting the metrics right is critical. Our industry can't be reporting things that mislead or misassign blame. The medical community doesn't treat people for cancer without having a high degree they've gotten the diagnostics correct as an example. An initial metric, per this group, would be geared towards responsiveness or the speed of causality. Here, we may need to include linear distance, the power required to achieve a responsiveness and to take account of Pareto efficiencies, where one device's better responsiveness can't make another's worse. An example per a possible FiWi new & comprehensive metric: A rating could be something like 10K responses per second at 1Km terrestrial (fiber) cable / 6m radius free space range / 5W total / 0-impact to others. If consumers can learn to read nutrition labels they can also learn to read these. Maybe a device produces a scan code qr based upon its e3e measurement and the scan code qr loads a page with human interpretable analysis? Similar to how we now pull up menus on our mobile phones listing the food items and the nutrition information that's available to seat at a table. Then, in a perfect world, there is a rating per each link hop or better, network jurisdiction. Each jurisdiction could decide if they want to participate or not, similar to connecting up an autonomous system or not. I think measurements of network jurisdictions without prior agreements are unfair. The lack of measurement capability is likely enough pressure needed to motivate actions. Bob PS. As a side note, and a shameless plug, iperf 2 now supports bounceback and a big issue has been clock sync for one way delays (OWD.) Per a comment from Jean Tourrhiles https://sourceforge.net/p/iperf2/tickets/242/ I added some unsync detections in the bounceback measurements. Contact me directly if your engineering team needs more information on iperf 2.