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From: rjmcmahon <rjmcmahon@rjmcmahon.com>
To: Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>
Cc: Sebastian Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de>,
	Rpm <rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net>, dan <dandenson@gmail.com>,
	Bruce Perens <bruce@perens.com>,
	libreqos <libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
	Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
	bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Subject: Re: [Rpm] [Bloat] [Starlink] [LibreQoS] On FiWi
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2023 12:39:33 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <0c59999b3bb49758cf4f923c47528fc1@rjmcmahon.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAA93jw5fawYwZ-iSRR8GRKLO39Cf9N4+xNCoE8Y0=H+DbAUw9w@mail.gmail.com>

> I have sometimes thought that LiFi (https://lifi.co/) would suddenly
> come out of the woodwork,
> and we would be networking over that through the household.

I think the wishful thinking is "coming from woodwork" vs coming from 
the current and near future state of engineering. Engineering comes from 
humans solving problems who typically get paid to do so.

FiWi would leverage SFP tech. The Fi side of FiWi comes from mass NRE 
investments into the data center networks. The Wi side from mass 
investment into billions of mobile phones. Leveraging WiFi & SFP parts 
is critical to success as semiconductors are a by-the-pound business. I 
think a 1X25G VCSEL SFP, which is tolerant to dust over MMF, has a 
retail price of $40 today.  The sweet spot for DC SFP today is driven by 
1x100Gb/s serdes and I suspect angel investors are trying to improve the 
power significantly of the attached lasers. It's been said that one 
order of improvement in lowering laser power gives multiple orders of 
laser MTBF improvements. So lasers, SERDES & CMOS radios are not static 
and will constantly improve year to year per thousands of engineers 
working on them today, tomorrow & on.

The important parts of FiWi have to be pluggable - just like a light 
bulb is. The socket and wiring last (a la the fiber and antennas) - we 
just swap a bulb if it burns out, if we want a different color, if we 
want a higher foot candle rating, etc. This allows engineering cadences 
to match market cadences and pays staffs. Most engineers don't like to 
wait decades between releases so-to-speak and don't like feast & famine 
lifestyles. Moore's law was and is about human cadences too.

I don't see any engineering NRE that LiFi could leverage. Sounds cool 
though.

Bob

  parent reply	other threads:[~2023-03-15 19:39 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 148+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <mailman.2651.1672779463.1281.starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
     [not found] ` <1672786712.106922180@apps.rackspace.com>
     [not found]   ` <F4CA66DA-516C-438A-8D8A-5F172E5DFA75@cable.comcast.com>
2023-01-09 15:26     ` [Rpm] [Starlink] Researchers Seeking Probe Volunteers in USA Dave Taht
2023-01-09 17:00       ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-01-09 17:04       ` [Rpm] [LibreQoS] " Jeremy Austin
2023-01-09 18:33         ` Dave Taht
2023-01-09 18:54       ` [Rpm] [EXTERNAL] " Livingood, Jason
2023-01-09 19:19         ` rjmcmahon
2023-01-09 19:56           ` [Rpm] [LibreQoS] " dan
2023-01-09 21:00             ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-13 10:02             ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 15:08               ` [Rpm] [Starlink] [LibreQoS] [EXTERNAL] " Jeremy Austin
2023-03-13 15:50                 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 16:06                   ` [Rpm] [Bloat] " Dave Taht
2023-03-13 16:19                     ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 16:12                   ` [Rpm] " dan
2023-03-13 16:36                     ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 17:26                       ` dan
2023-03-13 17:37                         ` Jeremy Austin
2023-03-13 18:34                           ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 18:14                         ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 18:42                           ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-13 18:51                             ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 19:32                               ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-13 20:00                                 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 20:28                                   ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-14  4:27                                     ` [Rpm] On FiWi rjmcmahon
2023-03-14 11:10                                       ` [Rpm] [Starlink] " Mike Puchol
2023-03-14 16:54                                         ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-14 17:06                                           ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-14 17:11                                             ` [Rpm] [Bloat] " Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-14 17:35                                               ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-14 17:54                                                 ` [Rpm] [LibreQoS] " dan
2023-03-14 18:14                                                   ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-14 19:18                                                     ` dan
2023-03-14 19:30                                                       ` [Rpm] [Bloat] [LibreQoS] " Dave Taht
2023-03-14 20:06                                                         ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-14 19:30                                                       ` [Rpm] [LibreQoS] [Bloat] " rjmcmahon
2023-03-14 23:30                                                         ` [Rpm] [Starlink] [LibreQoS] [Bloat] " Bruce Perens
2023-03-15  0:11                                                           ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-15  5:20                                                             ` Bruce Perens
2023-03-15 16:17                                                               ` Aaron Wood
2023-03-15 17:05                                                                 ` Bruce Perens
2023-03-15 17:44                                                                   ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-15 19:22                                                                   ` [Rpm] [Bloat] [Starlink] [LibreQoS] " David Lang
2023-03-15 17:32                                                               ` [Rpm] [Starlink] [LibreQoS] [Bloat] " rjmcmahon
2023-03-15 17:42                                                                 ` dan
2023-03-15 19:33                                                                   ` [Rpm] [Bloat] [Starlink] [LibreQoS] " David Lang
2023-03-15 19:39                                                                     ` Dave Taht
2023-03-15 21:52                                                                       ` David Lang
2023-03-15 22:04                                                                         ` Dave Taht
2023-03-15 22:08                                                                           ` dan
2023-03-15 17:43                                                                 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-15 17:49                                                                   ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-15 17:53                                                                     ` Dave Taht
2023-03-15 17:59                                                                       ` dan
2023-03-15 19:39                                                                       ` rjmcmahon [this message]
2023-03-17 16:38                                         ` [Rpm] [Starlink] " Dave Taht
2023-03-17 18:21                                           ` Mike Puchol
2023-03-17 19:01                                           ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-17 19:19                                             ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-17 20:37                                               ` Bruce Perens
2023-03-17 20:57                                                 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-17 22:50                                                   ` Bruce Perens
2023-03-18 18:18                                                     ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-18 19:57                                                       ` [Rpm] [LibreQoS] " dan
2023-03-18 20:40                                                         ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-19 10:26                                                           ` [Rpm] [Starlink] [LibreQoS] " Michael Richardson
2023-03-19 21:00                                                             ` [Rpm] On metrics rjmcmahon
2023-03-20  0:26                                                               ` dan
2023-03-20  3:03                                                                 ` [Rpm] [Starlink] " David Lang
2023-03-20 20:46                                                             ` [Rpm] [Starlink] [LibreQoS] On FiWi Frantisek Borsik
2023-03-20 21:28                                                               ` dan
2023-03-20 21:38                                                                 ` Frantisek Borsik
2023-03-20 22:02                                                                   ` [Rpm] On FiWi power envelope rjmcmahon
2023-03-20 23:47                                                                     ` [Rpm] [Starlink] " Bruce Perens
2023-03-21  0:10                                                                 ` [Rpm] [Starlink] [LibreQoS] On FiWi Brandon Butterworth
2023-03-21  5:21                                                                   ` Frantisek Borsik
2023-03-21 11:26                                                                     ` [Rpm] Annoyed at 5/1 Mbps Rich Brown
2023-03-21 12:29                                                                     ` [Rpm] [Starlink] [LibreQoS] On FiWi Brandon Butterworth
2023-03-21 12:30                                                                   ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-21 17:42                                                                     ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-21 18:08                                                                       ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-21 18:51                                                                         ` Frantisek Borsik
2023-03-21 19:58                                                                           ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-21 20:06                                                                             ` [Rpm] [Bloat] " David Lang
2023-03-25 19:39                                                                             ` [Rpm] On fiber as critical infrastructure w/Comcast chat rjmcmahon
2023-03-25 20:09                                                                               ` [Rpm] [Starlink] " Bruce Perens
2023-03-25 20:47                                                                                 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-25 20:15                                                                               ` [Rpm] [Bloat] " Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-25 20:43                                                                                 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-25 21:08                                                                                   ` [Rpm] [Starlink] " Bruce Perens
2023-03-25 22:04                                                                                     ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-25 22:50                                                                                       ` dan
2023-03-25 23:21                                                                                         ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-25 23:35                                                                                           ` [Rpm] [Bloat] [Starlink] " David Lang
2023-03-26  0:04                                                                                             ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-26  0:07                                                                                               ` Nathan Owens
2023-03-26  0:50                                                                                                 ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-26  8:45                                                                                                 ` Livingood, Jason
2023-03-26 18:54                                                                                                   ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-26  0:28                                                                                               ` David Lang
2023-03-26  0:57                                                                                                 ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-25 22:57                                                                                       ` [Rpm] [Starlink] [Bloat] " Bruce Perens
2023-03-25 23:33                                                                                         ` [Rpm] [Bloat] [Starlink] " David Lang
2023-03-25 23:38                                                                                         ` [Rpm] [Starlink] [Bloat] " Robert McMahon
2023-03-25 23:20                                                                                       ` [Rpm] [Bloat] [Starlink] " David Lang
2023-03-26 18:29                                                                                         ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-26 10:34                                                                                   ` [Rpm] [Bloat] " Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-26 18:12                                                                                     ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-26 20:57                                                                                     ` David Lang
2023-03-25 20:27                                                                               ` [Rpm] " rjmcmahon
2023-03-17 23:15                                             ` [Rpm] [Bloat] [Starlink] On FiWi David Lang
2023-03-13 19:33                           ` [Rpm] [Starlink] [LibreQoS] [EXTERNAL] Re: Researchers Seeking Probe Volunteers in USA dan
2023-03-13 19:52                             ` Jeremy Austin
2023-03-13 21:00                               ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 21:27                                 ` dan
2023-03-14  9:11                                   ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 20:45                             ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 21:02                               ` [Rpm] When do you drop? Always! Dave Taht
2023-03-13 16:04                 ` [Rpm] UnderBloat on fiber and wisps Dave Taht
2023-03-13 16:09                   ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-01-09 20:49         ` [Rpm] [EXTERNAL] Re: [Starlink] Researchers Seeking Probe Volunteers in USA Dave Taht
2023-01-09 19:13       ` [Rpm] " rjmcmahon
2023-01-09 19:47         ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-01-11 18:32           ` Rodney W. Grimes
2023-01-11 20:01             ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-01-11 21:46               ` Dick Roy
2023-01-12  8:22                 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-01-12 18:02                   ` rjmcmahon
2023-01-12 21:34                     ` Dick Roy
2023-01-12 20:39                   ` Dick Roy
2023-01-13  7:33                     ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-01-13  8:26                       ` Dick Roy
2023-01-13  7:40                     ` rjmcmahon
2023-01-13  8:10                       ` Dick Roy
2023-01-15 23:09                         ` rjmcmahon
2023-01-11 20:09             ` rjmcmahon
2023-01-12  8:14               ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-01-12 17:49                 ` Robert McMahon
2023-01-12 21:57                   ` Dick Roy
2023-01-13  7:44                     ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-01-13  8:01                       ` Dick Roy
2023-01-09 20:20         ` Dave Taht
2023-01-09 20:46           ` rjmcmahon
2023-01-09 20:59             ` Dave Taht
2023-01-09 21:06               ` rjmcmahon
2023-01-09 21:18                 ` rjmcmahon
2023-01-09 21:02             ` Dick Roy
2023-01-10 17:36         ` David P. Reed

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