From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1831D3B29D; Sun, 19 Jun 2022 17:18:54 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1655673532; bh=RvulMzJxJYMLPAh2kI7rSishL/3NfePJZ1E3SFP0d54=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=IU0l3KNHLFgB4d59JMTtSMyya3scio70SrCFOfQ+hqaUNPt9lX+kW0+uQJbMqvFFP ZPmqrSNRy2vwQOhLnXgQlZymcV9ePYG/q/4dms7BuZU/p9huDeLgeD4Wgs/6eBCTWW qe90B0NAYkNsJCS93UinkqP8A1Gm1L011nykLni4= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from smtpclient.apple ([77.6.66.20]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MSKuA-1o9kQO26MC-00SeJO; Sun, 19 Jun 2022 23:18:52 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.100.31\)) From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2022 23:18:51 +0200 Cc: Matt Mathis , =?utf-8?Q?Dave_T=C3=A4ht?= , Dave Taht via Bloat , Rpm Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <2E9530A7-7213-4933-9784-7A25C44FB137@gmx.de> References: <81153147-A7F5-4AC7-A07A-320FBE66C94B@gmx.de> To: Sam Crawford X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.100.31) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:up4Yd253H6SUQ95OAacobW0sA4ep9oiFn3onkLz3a543ugV02ng jbi1Nyc6SDwjmDuXFcY9V+HWUXnkIF8+5cKuXtoJk2AFHNbkPZkAjSusknl6DrtSiB73hcs o0oSE1Ml25k5mUWGVb5zCi7XjOING5xbw1mkwK1wWbe4bSklmxEUsa/GDDGHVPXojVD4Qyk EhXP0da6svbfgpQV0KG/Q== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:1BacThuv04g=:S/l/4CsfJEg1aUQeFIje/1 ySy3sWcQ7s7E0SU3wirFNLjOSL/Hu89L5Y2PME5ApOQM7kEWHYRbA922SedJsPm07NrcyrGl5 45MFCrTrOo+lC5t0J84yzNdYBL/lt3+qKSaxHIkEn7DtqJWFrl520Y9feJjj79R0A3bnDp3/9 eVRdDPZhu8Dwu2XPuf/Gq5VVbF2YznejOWEKNugNM9U3MVZQeyCcrgnsztctq1mPKcQ4JPoD1 cgNDRl/n1Uhui1g5VxtLXZnm6bbQbeCoC0FTu9nRDGMOGXfY+dQv1gdMR6A5ReNuqIuz+fmi+ Mq29QLkyrrVrl6wpSUzvpfVqj2yZXwlAASthzpS3kA05IjjYP74MOS5XQ75tfmxZrPi5trcr1 0vjPBT7VuO0kyIdAqG+iDRfY8omniP/fGhZpqWYpqBspvNeXAeY+9cSiWWY7j5Q8RH7djKQlQ cfWDVupy7wT3YcyPI3v9mUroCTLEwvYHpoP7JrWoFshIaU0kIC72JjfPG3l2N/b35/rJYqGj2 mxZtxVxvw27onZ5Ic3ynwtvd8OpMKofyegeWuo3L8iqkXL7mK7AWapeEuwVyNE9jRn8F7L9x9 fKtMZAY+fMgN94H4nxuxgy+8F70eonmZaSym8hV9yNKPTwnfA+nWOrOWwDd4KMyx3aIxiU7sa aqkWkDpBOuwUSrr7w4I8Y6qCQqlcg4gpLEKlW8eRGhj31DVGcnMykxO4rK5lGI9CdyMP5g06v PDYElJwDmoqUPqw9OLKo0WpVJVd26lBLaQLFJZ6W6BFMc4+rM6bYuP8gPZjvwfi5PKasnOkFY fPROKGNSO+/Uyvf+QOZXSCfqtwljOm0oXDGNr1lOmtZfs3NWLOlJ0oJErkI9oDEVfCvVyQiMQ 4Y5C2yi2IZe7hNmNiAlX3pUAWNgkq5DvkxF2FshRLtJchVUvrltEmugKjkrfn4G3yjhDldHx3 XJIEhNx7lENapKUaVUGYa7XRa/uCZe915lbHHv+ueduEzv1tkBdN4csXAW8vyBt08EckLCaLW W+SPfmRoiaXKVVKpgA5tbMLH4+KhgDvFDsE7uCNEWqFuMKcm0zS8R0NUlJnngdP69AKlgBz5E ivvZOknEboF785IEA/i/5dCR/8CfwXoIHdCn7sj+JhtJ6nYunRi0oTXZA== Subject: Re: [Rpm] [Bloat] An 8 years perspective on broadband in the usa - fcc data X-BeenThere: rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: revolutions per minute - a new metric for measuring responsiveness List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2022 21:18:55 -0000 Matt, Sam thank you very much. Great list! Regards Sebastian > On Jun 19, 2022, at 21:51, Sam Crawford wrote: >=20 > Thanks for the heads up. >=20 > Downstream throughput and upstream throughput are measured in = indepdent tests, they aren't mixed as the question suggests might be the = case. So, latency under downstream load is measured independently from = latency under upstream load. The raw data for both is published for the = FCC project. >=20 > I've not read the paper to understand which one they are using. But = I'll take a look tomorrow. >=20 > Thanks >=20 > Sam >=20 >=20 > On Sun, 19 Jun 2022, 20:39 Matt Mathis, wrote: > Sam, see the question below about your methodology, from your FCC = report. >=20 > Thanks, > --MM-- > Evil is defined by mortals who think they know "The Truth" and use = force to apply it to others.=20 > ------------------------------------------- > Matt Mathis (Email is best) > Home & mobile: 412-654-7529 please leave a message if you must call. >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Sun, Jun 19, 2022 at 8:46 AM Sebastian Moeller via Rpm = wrote: > Hi Dave, >=20 > > On Jun 19, 2022, at 17:32, Dave Taht via Bloat = wrote: > >=20 > > It's not clear if they are only measuring downloads in fig 4. ? > >=20 > > = https://vaibhavbajpai.com/documents/papers/proceedings/fcc-networking-2022= .pdf >=20 > indeed: >=20 > "The SamKnows probes measure a variety of broadband met- rics [22] = over IPv4. The tests [22] covered in this paper include: multi-threaded = download speed, UDP latency, UDP latency un- der load, and UDP packet = loss. The tests connect to the closest measurement servers (based on = round-trip time); measurement servers are hosted both off-net (outside = of ISP boundary) and on-net (within ISP boundary). The off-net = measurement points were hosted by Measurement Lab (M-Lab) [23] and = changed to Level 3 Communications (CenturyLink) across ten cities in the = US, while the on-net measurement targets are hosted by the ISPs = themselves. The FCC publishes the raw data for each month [24], along = with annual reports on major findings [25]. For controllability reasons, = the annual MBA reports only cover measurements to the off-net locations, = i.e., latency results might be inflated due to geographical distance. = Thus, we also consider the on-net measurements in our analysis." >=20 > reference 22 points to = https://www.fcc.gov/general/measuring-broadband-america-open-methodology > "Latency under load Average round trip time for a series of = regularly spaced UDP packets sent during downstream/upstream sustained = tests" >=20 > this seems to imply that it would be mixed upload/download saturation? >=20 >=20 > But I agree that this is unclear... maybe Sam (Crawford) knows (pun = intended), I do not have his email, but maybe he is on-list or someone = else can relay that question? >=20 > Regards > Sebastian >=20 >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > --=20 > > FQ World Domination pending: = https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/ > > Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC > > _______________________________________________ > > Bloat mailing list > > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Rpm mailing list > Rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/rpm