From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from bobcat.rjmcmahon.com (bobcat.rjmcmahon.com [45.33.58.123]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 27DC43CB38; Sat, 18 Mar 2023 16:40:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.rjmcmahon.com (bobcat.rjmcmahon.com [45.33.58.123]) by bobcat.rjmcmahon.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 296611EEE8; Sat, 18 Mar 2023 13:40:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 bobcat.rjmcmahon.com 296611EEE8 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rjmcmahon.com; s=bobcat; t=1679172030; bh=mBkEHE8G72I8gsWUFmh5DgWYWHHS+N1YHDBaichpyhg=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=ZqJlzR6P+mXHSyP1s2frrWqFiompeEbypTqJXUwJ4hWOtmtezYibiWPoytBk1hoTB ydyMp3mmJYZLjsYRKKktp+e0cxiccdmPAszdJWSKpc4cNrjhbmY3Hq+hXW2O94MEg2 YrNfc3ZYRgWjfXSkfXntRC2cYfdYbgQ143e9u0Is= MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2023 13:40:30 -0700 From: rjmcmahon To: dan Cc: Bruce Perens , Dave Taht via Starlink , Rpm , Sebastian Moeller , bloat , libreqos In-Reply-To: References: <1672786712.106922180@apps.rackspace.com> <77CCAD19-07E0-4F9E-88C1-D207CF7BF376@cable.comcast.com> <83ffc0dad19e3343e49271889369cefc@rjmcmahon.com> <3CD0B9E6-0B2A-4A70-8F53-ED0822DF77A6@gmx.de> <13DE6E53-665F-4C20-BBE2-70E685421E9D@gmx.de> <22C819FA-DDD7-4B9B-8C09-8008D4273287@gmx.de> <5e7fac51071bdbb20837e72e7eedfc7c@rjmcmahon.com> <3f45d2a0b6e46d7b2775fb801e805f93@rjmcmahon.com> <70F71290-C6CB-4D19-8A88-F0F17C0BDDA2@gmx.de> <5e0cd693c4749d128dbb48d6c1129071@rjmcmahon.com> <2ab2983d-6beb-49cb-8c35-e481cbfdc7a3@Spark> <8F56CCA3-61C4-475F-975D-99D851C6A7CF@gmx.de> <1d6c10c9a692bb3f2869fb1b40fa449a@rjmcmahon.com> <005d1e7e3e1d19bce308436e46a3ec5e@rjmcmahon.com> Message-ID: <569691b3e7dfc57bbf98c4fc168fc6cf@rjmcmahon.com> X-Sender: rjmcmahon@rjmcmahon.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [Rpm] [LibreQoS] [Starlink] On FiWi X-BeenThere: rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: revolutions per minute - a new metric for measuring responsiveness List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2023 20:40:31 -0000 > All of the states use cases are already handled by inexpensive lorawan > sensors and are already covered by multiple lorawan networks in NYC > and most urban centers in the US. There is no need for a new > infrastructure, it’s already there. Not to mention NBIoT/catm > radios. > > This is all just general cheapness and lack of liability keeping these > out of widespread deployment. It’s not lack of tech on the market > today. What is the footprint of lorawan networks and what's the velocity of growth? What's the cost per square foot both capex and operations, maintaining & monitoring lorawan? What's that compared to the WiFi install base, i.e. now we have train even installers and maintainers on purpose built technology vs just use what most people know because it's common? This all looks like ethernet, token ring, fddi, netbios, decnet, etc. where the single approach of IP over WiFi/ethernet with fiber fronthaul wave guides and backhauls' waveguides per the ISP seems the effective way forward. I don't think it's in society's interest to have so disparate networks technologies as we have learned from IP and the internet. My guess is lorawan will never get built out across the planet as has been done for IP. I can tell that every country is adopting IP because they're using a free IP tool to measure their networks. https://sourceforge.net/projects/iperf2/files/stats/map?dates=2014-02-06%20to%202023-03-18&period=daily Bob