From: David Lang <david@lang.hm>
To: Sebastian Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de>
Cc: Bob McMahon <bob.mcmahon@broadcom.com>,
Bob McMahon via Rpm <rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
David Lang <david@lang.hm>,
Cake List <cake@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
Make-Wifi-fast <make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Subject: Re: [Rpm] [Make-wifi-fast] [Bloat] The most wonderful video ever about bufferbloat
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2022 00:09:12 -0700 (PDT) [thread overview]
Message-ID: <6697ss38-s3nr-99n3-8q5o-p24q6q7923np@ynat.uz> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <BBA547E7-7061-451D-8EA1-22C282E11234@gmx.de>
On Tue, 18 Oct 2022, Sebastian Moeller wrote:
> Hi Bob,
>
>> Many network engineers typically, though incorrectly, perceive a transmit
>> unit as one ethernet packet. With WiFi it's one Mu transmission or one Su
>> transmission, with aggregation(s), which is a lot more than one ethernet
>> packet but it depends on things like MCS, spatial stream powers, Mu peers,
>> etc. and is variable. Some data center designs have optimized the
>> forwarding plane for flow completion times so their equivalent transmit
>> unit is a mouse flow.
>
> [SM] Is this driven more by the need to aggregate packets to amortize some cost over a larger payload or to reduce the scheduling overhead or to regularize things (as in fixed size DTUs used in DSL with G.INP retransmissions)?
it's to amortize costs over a larger payload.
the gap between transmissions is in ms, and the transmission header is
transmitted at a slow data rate (both for backwards compatibility with older
equipment that doesn't know about the higher data rate modulations)
For a long time, the transmission header was transmitted at 1Mb (which is still
the default in most equipment), but there is now an option to no longer support
802.11b equipment, which raises the header transmission time to 11Mb.
These factors are so imbalanced compared to the top data rates available that
you need to transmit several MB of data to have actual data use 50% of the
airtime.
David Lang
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2022-10-19 7:09 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 67+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2022-10-09 13:14 [Rpm] " Dave Taht
2022-10-09 13:23 ` [Rpm] [Bloat] " Nathan Owens
2022-10-10 5:52 ` Taraldsen Erik
2022-10-10 9:09 ` [Rpm] [Cake] " Sebastian Moeller
2022-10-10 9:32 ` Taraldsen Erik
2022-10-10 9:40 ` Sebastian Moeller
2022-10-10 11:46 ` [Rpm] [Bloat] [Cake] " Taraldsen Erik
2022-10-10 20:23 ` Sebastian Moeller
2022-10-11 6:08 ` [Rpm] [Cake] [Bloat] " Taraldsen Erik
2022-10-11 6:35 ` Sebastian Moeller
2022-10-11 6:38 ` [Rpm] [Bloat] [Cake] " Dave Taht
2022-10-11 11:34 ` Taraldsen Erik
2022-10-10 16:45 ` [Rpm] [Make-wifi-fast] [Cake] [Bloat] " Bob McMahon
2022-10-10 22:57 ` [Rpm] [Bloat] [Make-wifi-fast] [Cake] " David Lang
2022-10-11 0:05 ` Bob McMahon
2022-10-11 7:15 ` Sebastian Moeller
2022-10-11 16:58 ` Bob McMahon
2022-10-11 17:00 ` Dave Taht
2022-10-11 17:26 ` Sebastian Moeller
2022-10-11 17:47 ` Bob McMahon
2022-10-11 13:57 ` Rich Brown
2022-10-11 14:43 ` [Rpm] [Make-wifi-fast] [Bloat] " Dave Taht
2022-10-11 17:05 ` [Rpm] [Bloat] [Make-wifi-fast] " Bob McMahon
2022-10-11 18:44 ` Rich Brown
2022-10-11 22:24 ` Dave Taht
2022-10-12 17:39 ` Bob McMahon
2022-10-12 21:44 ` [Rpm] [Cake] [Bloat] [Make-wifi-fast] " David P. Reed
2022-10-13 17:45 ` [Rpm] [Bloat] [Make-wifi-fast] [Cake] " Livingood, Jason
2022-10-13 17:49 ` Dave Taht
2022-10-11 6:28 ` [Rpm] [Make-wifi-fast] [Cake] [Bloat] " Sebastian Moeller
2022-10-18 0:02 ` [Rpm] [Make-wifi-fast] " Stuart Cheshire
2022-10-18 2:44 ` Dave Taht
2022-10-18 2:50 ` [Rpm] [Bloat] " Sina Khanifar
2022-10-18 3:15 ` [Rpm] A quick report from the WISPA conference Dave Taht
2022-10-18 17:17 ` Sina Khanifar
2022-10-18 19:04 ` [Rpm] [Bloat] " Sebastian Moeller
2022-10-20 5:15 ` Sina Khanifar
2022-10-20 9:01 ` Sebastian Moeller
2022-10-18 19:17 ` Sebastian Moeller
2022-10-18 2:58 ` [Rpm] [Bloat] [Make-wifi-fast] The most wonderful video ever about bufferbloat David Lang
2022-10-18 17:03 ` [Rpm] [Make-wifi-fast] [Bloat] " Bob McMahon
2022-10-18 18:19 ` Sebastian Moeller
2022-10-18 19:30 ` Bob McMahon
2022-10-19 7:09 ` David Lang [this message]
2022-10-19 19:18 ` Bob McMahon
2022-10-19 19:23 ` David Lang
2022-10-19 21:26 ` [Rpm] [Cake] " David P. Reed
2022-10-19 21:37 ` David Lang
2022-10-19 20:44 ` [Rpm] [Make-wifi-fast] " Stuart Cheshire
2022-10-19 21:33 ` [Rpm] [Bloat] " David Lang
2022-10-19 23:36 ` Stephen Hemminger
2022-10-20 14:26 ` [Rpm] [Bloat] [Make-wifi-fast] Traffic analogies (was: Wonderful video) Rich Brown
2022-10-19 21:46 ` [Rpm] [Bloat] [Make-wifi-fast] The most wonderful video ever about bufferbloat Michael Richardson
2022-12-06 19:17 ` [Rpm] [Make-wifi-fast] [Bloat] " Bob McMahon
2022-10-20 9:36 ` [Rpm] [Make-wifi-fast] " Sebastian Moeller
2022-10-20 18:32 ` Stuart Cheshire
2022-10-20 19:04 ` Bob McMahon
2022-10-20 19:12 ` Dave Taht
2022-10-20 19:31 ` Bob McMahon
2022-10-20 19:40 ` Sebastian Moeller
2022-10-21 17:48 ` Bob McMahon
2022-10-20 19:33 ` Sebastian Moeller
2022-10-20 19:33 ` Dave Taht
2022-10-26 20:38 ` Sebastian Moeller
2022-10-26 20:42 ` Dave Taht
2022-10-26 20:53 ` Sebastian Moeller
2022-10-18 18:07 ` [Rpm] [Bloat] " Sebastian Moeller
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