From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-io1-xd2b.google.com (mail-io1-xd2b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2590E3B2A4 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2021 19:34:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd2b.google.com with SMTP id i14so10272225ioa.13 for ; Thu, 28 Oct 2021 16:34:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=KELOwBVyAntSLzoekdTgllMJfweojiylJWZLhtPnSJ8=; b=Jkfq2zs8p3kyEUfrCWNmQKN0z6uckHCLUKL+1dhZeI/sfGs/Rv0z/Vzxk6IIklXro6 uZdLXUqfLkTVgUs830cB8ZNUEpyT1ZML7MrWAJfsrjTK/eBYTWouRGcOXztlc+45wdmh kbXbr4+al8C+rzYz0G4Fu8ZlCgJsjjhwHpgimVS61paEekN/DlnU9QG18iXQutPZjOw6 z+HlmQV0SPs0e9/v3yQrG94Mbxuqo5zdDQmUdMEqA3w+PTk4K0TvhyxfWMG2srGe3UCF 8TLxTzQ/uGGACccdrqQNJKcqOdjAtmSzMgqb9Xst9kIDhky7hye0FZA88i1+YUgGSv3Z EzMQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=KELOwBVyAntSLzoekdTgllMJfweojiylJWZLhtPnSJ8=; b=evHp+gRbgTpytk8EFOwRVX3HdclsLlSxMuiLIGI7nq6lHd7lc8xP01F9lSD/eDNyP3 dw8fgqW/Sxq30QdHtlv/9m+ueCqDNkELZx6MGNm2a5H4E3JvQ+kCycvbpNMckfY2uymG 0e945fZIS2EAHEyHMX1Wr5uaJjNYmeRqJcFneBSgBTmmTN1W/a+1ZIJgSmF8sfQ0np9l 1XN8kDwHveCaA+OSUfQu2hU3FUtxIewo8iMPRpYQ6h4ev9UV9BWKoaYFmrnCdorCE4rq y7QEb842BZDhSyJYrGDroPVUquKmlw1XE9BidJ+rZlWFs/uuOQupk+brRHoFh/h8Ql+R lNWg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531UjLr5ojnX9N9tSmRMl4yXnKuhfHBqda0DrDcd9C8NobICNR7p G/6DLjSmRqI+8+sp4ORHn6Tbanf2D/5SThLownobcgW1pF4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxEZlf76dVVf3yfbIPWwwM5Pv0VQGTOceLMwLGgz/IlaF/8kWu+PCDm2+qNzugvJqJRyT9geOYruL8AjdQcKpM= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6638:190f:: with SMTP id p15mr5597379jal.104.1635464071980; Thu, 28 Oct 2021 16:34:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dave Taht Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2021 16:34:20 -0700 Message-ID: To: Rpm Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Rpm] solved for "tens of thousands of people". X-BeenThere: rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: revolutions per minute - a new metric for measuring responsiveness List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2021 23:34:33 -0000 I wanted to offer a small correction to the current RPM abstract, uploaded a few days ago: https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-cpaasch-ippm-responsiveness-01.html Millions. 3m at free alone had fq_codel on their DSL. comcast is.. however many docsis 3.1 modems have deployed (millions) ? eero and everyone shipping qcom wifi chips is ? gfiber's deployment? the entire 3rd party firewall and router market (?) those are just the easier to count numbers off the top of my head. Sure, in terms of postings and individual interactions visible on the web in the latter case it doesn't seem like a lot, but I figure the existing documentation and user base is 1000x that.... so... millions. If you want to also count in the upgrades in bandwidth in the last 10 years, another accomplishment, I think, was most of that bandwidth was added without misguided increases in buffering, without our fancy-schmancy algorithms needed, so that was many more millions. If you want to think about server side, bbr, tsq, bql, packet pacing... decreases. So a small change in language perhaps? "semi-solved for millions of people"? Certainly wifi and lte suck the most of what's left to fix. I generally say there's a billion routers left to upgrade. One of the fantasy numbers that has kept me going for all these years of living on top ramen was that if aqm and fq technologies I'd worked on primarily... saved X users 1 second/day of waiting on the internet. Say X is 10m today, that's 115 days/day and depending on how you want to calculate that in terms of man years or time spent on the internet, call it 400 man years per year. Not like any of us can go cash a check on that karmic bank but, it's comforting. (have a song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DHMG1wKpDT38 ) I tend to think that smashing latencies all through the stack affected pretty much the whole internet's responsiveness - that and optimizing web pages, cdns, etc, etc, also saved people a lot of time on waiting on the internet. And along the way we made webrtc go from postage stamp 2 frames per second in 2012 to all of civilization managing to cope with working from home during covid. Imagine, covid-2012? I've never come up with a number for annoying people less... Blocking ads is still effective for saving time however, another annoyance that's cropped up in the last few years is the teaser paragraph and then the demand to turn off advertising on a per site basis. I wish there was a plugin for a browser that blocked content from paywall demanding sites. I'm glad I can pay google/pandora/netflix 10 bucks a month for streaming services without ads. Anyway, just the deployed aqm/fq solutions alone are in the 10s of millions, IMHO. Just working so well for those using them that they never noticed. --=20 Fixing Starlink's Latencies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dc9gLo6Xrwgw Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC