From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wr1-x42b.google.com (mail-wr1-x42b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B75AD3CB62 for ; Sun, 19 Feb 2023 18:44:25 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-wr1-x42b.google.com with SMTP id e2so1349830wri.12 for ; Sun, 19 Feb 2023 15:44:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=oBo1WROApB9WSGNT6wtOVRw2dxLoIoqxAXdhGIYzbVI=; b=g0YocbJpoMIuVqa+OO2a4Nrsa1ygTIkEBiF/a7RUADtxPo6yNKzUkkIoZcAbqnkbtq 73KD8ksJ25YHVnhC/tkLzvZaqNyXCuBLsjl99ZaMFogB9jOMhbr63ecfkg1TZnkGQM06 tY7oetRpveKwmidTvw0vlqYq7O8+Af/pMBuasEdsPUjFoo+ygLXoEVqZpFqo6P9JhiU/ Boj4++FCsJs6tMWc+L2nJcUSROQ5XXwSw6ghCHbTvvBz2kEK4sJ5eLl8k3Oy6y1CjVXq D6u3Y70YQ1ezgLAlq0jqfz2mZ2dbRK6oVU4DmoRBNrtN7ml1QSFdHPhDKaCBeCGHxSeP j9yw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=oBo1WROApB9WSGNT6wtOVRw2dxLoIoqxAXdhGIYzbVI=; b=zzgmTFz3LAoLYGa+pe13xlac2uYQnUkxw66w0ddpsDHj7G0g+PDOM99Zze5d97/Zvx Hf66Jtkc7vkfcLd+bBTHwbLD3YO1fHkgHexwi4zebbBiRpJm9AQEYgqDoKwy0iIisRdZ cnVsqL83p8VfTNqo5L0b67w2aNffFpujWfCAMeEnNH7WXPEclA7aLcQo00yX31C0MFxe n9xxB/dMxMH/25U4TGt7VlUyOiB3aVJESHelkAlhnA+dPyoLETHnGl+7JZlglenCsIpd RbGORib1xQGVbxg+H/mqhUnRLmyChXGEimxCBFkGQDtXUZSO07dtMzbl2v7y7qeBc5RW r8nA== X-Gm-Message-State: AO0yUKW0R+PiDfVEsTD5swphUoz6sMxxBHNizV0kBx2kWaWWwg6RQQxA wvD24Yb+9ZiwLiqludz7j5JjJP2j0eFQyg6UwnfeHFCuxgs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AK7set+p1hsoeGwktDTYadwC/me/4bZS22t14Y0V55gTwF+6WWK8TRo0QLAwfgpanTPhVSVwRq45rCCSxqEM0itBwVE= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:56c6:0:b0:2c5:6175:a611 with SMTP id m6-20020a5d56c6000000b002c56175a611mr87294wrw.0.1676850264539; Sun, 19 Feb 2023 15:44:24 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <26ac4e4e00b1d0f20c816630fafb7e58@rjmcmahon.com> <1209c1b2fb917edc8bf33a73782823bd@rjmcmahon.com> In-Reply-To: <1209c1b2fb917edc8bf33a73782823bd@rjmcmahon.com> From: Dave Taht Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2023 15:44:12 -0800 Message-ID: To: rjmcmahon Cc: Rpm Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Rpm] Almost had a dialog going with juniper... X-BeenThere: rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: revolutions per minute - a new metric for measuring responsiveness List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 19 Feb 2023 23:44:25 -0000 On Sun, Feb 19, 2023 at 3:37 PM rjmcmahon wrote: > > A bit off topic, but the AP/client power asymmetry is another design > flaw similar to bloat. It makes no sense to broadcast at a watt when the device is nearby. I think this is a huge, and largely unexplored problem. We tried to tackle it in the minstrel-blues project but didn't get far enough, and the rate controllers became too proprietary to continue. Some details here: https://github.com/thuehn/Minstrel-Blues > > Not sure why nobody is talking about that. Understanding of the inverse square law is rare. The work we did at google fiber, clearly showed the chromecast stick overdriving nearby APs. https://apenwarr.ca/diary/wifi-data-apenwarr-201602.pdf > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DEy5jVUXSJn4 Haha. > > Bob > > Their post isn't really about bloat. It's about the discrepancy in i/o > > bw of memory off-chip and on-chip. > > > > My opinion is that the off-chip memory or hybrid approach is a design > > flaw for a serious router mfg. The flaw is thinking the links' rates > > and the chip memory i/o rates aren't connected when obviously they > > are. Just go fast as possible and let some other device buffer, e.g. > > the end host or the server in the cloud. > > > > Bob > >> https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/juniper/ > >> > >> But they deleted the comment thread. It is interesting, I suppose, to > >> see how they frame the buffering problems to themselves in their post: > >> https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/sizing-router-buffers-small-new-big-sha= rada-yeluri/ > > _______________________________________________ > > Rpm mailing list > > Rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/rpm --=20 Surveillance Capitalism? Or DIY? Choose: https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/an_upgrade_in_place/ Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC