From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wr1-x433.google.com (mail-wr1-x433.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::433]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1A7E93B29E for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 17:26:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x433.google.com with SMTP id ffacd0b85a97d-2f46348728eso36978f8f.3 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 14:26:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1681507616; x=1684099616; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=st3j+hi6/GdSguCpP2ycpyElZSFx54wBLYFm26+tCAY=; b=rAde1v1odlF2kX9G2/niGlQshgjCf7HQDo3LYxysi4DpY9zRLD1KXzAz2TlYCepuvt eiPFyn4J0zWV1f7pk3d2x6nGDTNaZu7sd20rmbRvCmYLtyDCqnTLrN0EC0vx0euqKND0 RpPF7rT7MDfMv2+1L+7+LM85RAS+yMzsE0/tXI0jn4c4ymGvlu9yLIIcck7jHOZgR9hQ Ez3RSMw6uAFDnD8aKzyNmiFqihfwFvvVlnnVJ5+YDxKndmHj8kDis33zg9haqeJBmw3m g7Ow+r39aOhqn5un7Y6dK5dhR6TS9kBOR0785HwDGvGu8R+IY87aBpZRmx76oTkbw7cJ OEDw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1681507616; x=1684099616; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=st3j+hi6/GdSguCpP2ycpyElZSFx54wBLYFm26+tCAY=; b=TMzrKSoHfM8g4D8L2tETsRx8YeuVrxkxpxB9KTOpauHgKh57/inkOGt6h7wtK7YW0E iKIv9e4nmbPjGqAtf4bnBfzK7/hwwmMVM+L5fMObIlXfutxZ+NgxE5ZRkbUaEvWOBC+u 3cKYenVtG4CWshIfMxOwP0k4+Hn2PmqJbBI56GHsMOaoy2h+kPZI8N02ki4QnyTuqx5v NFCFUwP5Qcgf71kW53voqQqqnH0tGEdIO7HhOVUbXHzt1UvgRgpKCANtWN15iSCQpWak Sf27a1fgL+rFPTNut0WSgYDKun32lmJGCpmCwBeAo9gXZqh813yMaKwFbygAepfHQe8q mStA== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9fyyElOeC+gnOxMoyL85BP8I0Zlw3P7mzNmpfSJ+S53BitaFcvd fUGX8uzmaKC3gl4tJ0IEXkqHgQLRdPTOLM4UijeS35E1tsE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350ZBGHcSuuyGVLutdNHTqeCVyVlj89PUKPdM5WMuB69Q7K83Id7PvDmRrLdTRkK7INIKAyBw1ttMJFpvb5H/U9U= X-Received: by 2002:adf:d4c3:0:b0:2f2:5408:f160 with SMTP id w3-20020adfd4c3000000b002f25408f160mr37468wrk.13.1681507615783; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 14:26:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Dave Taht Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2023 14:26:44 -0700 Message-ID: To: Christoph Paasch Cc: Rpm Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Rpm] Vote: Closing the rpm list? X-BeenThere: rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: revolutions per minute - a new metric for measuring responsiveness List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2023 21:26:57 -0000 On Fri, Apr 14, 2023 at 2:17=E2=80=AFPM Christoph Paasch wrote: > > Hello, > > > On Apr 14, 2023, at 2:02 PM, Dave Taht wrote: > > > > I was not aware until this moment of the existence of the slack > > channel, poor me! > > No worries! I think we announced it a while back here on the list. > > > Anyway (all?), should I discontinue this mailing list, in preference > > for that? I have had had a tendency to cc rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net on > > more general measurement stuff, but perhaps ippm or slack would be a > > better home for it now? There are 53 users on this list, but so few > > postings besides the occasional cc from the bloat list. > > Yes, ok to close this mailing-list from my point-of-view. I will take a vote: Those here that want this list to continue, please say aye! Vote will close in 1 week. Or in what direction to move it? There are other measurement lists I am on also, such as ripe's and the marconi society... I have a long list of other (sadly unfunded, like wtbb) tools and benchmarks (like crusader), but what limited discussion of those we have, can largely all that can move to the bloat list. To clarify, discussion should be on ippm anyway? I see nearly no discussion from there. I too have found various chat channels vastly more productive than email, myself... > > Christoph > > > > > On Fri, Apr 14, 2023 at 1:15=E2=80=AFPM Christoph Paasch wrote: > >> > >> Hello Dave, > >> > >> On Apr 13, 2023, at 3:13 PM, Dave Taht via Rpm wrote: > >> > >> I have not been paying a lot of attention here of late. I objected to > >> the enormous number of flows goresponsiveness was doing, and strongly > >> suggested it run to time of first loss or mark. > >> > >> I find 4 flows enough > >> to stress out a network. > >> > >> > >> 4 flows should often be enough to utilize a network at its full capaci= ty. However, are 4 flows going to provide you stable working conditions in = such a way that the bottleneck=E2=80=99s buffers are entirely full over an = extended period without fluctuations due to the congestion-response of the = individual flows? Also, what is the convergence time to reach stable workin= g conditions and full buffer utilization at 4 flows? > >> > >> Now, that being said. I don=E2=80=99t think that the exact number of f= lows is that important. They just need to be enough to fill the buffers in = a stable way. All nit-picking on the number of flows just distracts us from= actually solving problems on the Internet. > >> > >> Anyway, is the structure of networkQuality > >> changing any in ippm? > >> > >> > >> Yes, the IETF-draft is continuously evolving. You can read the latest = version at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-responsive= ness. > >> > >> Discussions around the methodology and the development of the tools as= well as addressing issues we find in open-source networking stacks is all = happening at the =E2=80=9CNetwork-quality community=E2=80=9D, at https://gi= thub.com/network-quality/community/wiki. We have a slack-channel and a week= ly meeting. Everyone who is actively working on development is invited to j= oin our slack-channel and attend the weekly meetings. (The "active developm= ent" is a strong requirement ) > >> > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Christoph > >> > >> Some context here: > >> > >> https://www.reddit.com/r/amazoneero/comments/12ksu9d/sqm_optimizing_fo= r_videoconferencing_and_gaming/jg4zsq2/?context=3D8&depth=3D9 > >> > >> > >> -- > >> AMA March 31: https://www.broadband.io/c/broadband-grant-events/dave-t= aht > >> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Rpm mailing list > >> Rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net > >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/rpm > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > AMA March 31: https://www.broadband.io/c/broadband-grant-events/dave-ta= ht > > Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC > --=20 AMA March 31: https://www.broadband.io/c/broadband-grant-events/dave-taht Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC