From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-yw1-x1133.google.com (mail-yw1-x1133.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6726E3CB37; Tue, 14 Mar 2023 15:18:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-yw1-x1133.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-5416949b35aso198391927b3.13; Tue, 14 Mar 2023 12:18:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; t=1678821518; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=BJ5sUIsJhsxfa4vzu9Oo/U8Zp6eR6qzDA/4ztMyjGWs=; b=YuyK3KEw+YFMPSdt/Fo+fDwtOf4sQMpBPCnChRC4FJsUAzR009rzxpHK+AxyHfyPJ5 /10XARtNXs18jWOHnRM10ZEAciQ7OlSU4L07qx+A3PxNyNSXkm+ATHpY4U6CxSf1JbjV po4NUZ67Svk8O1J8YUv3VUGZLAyaZjuR8NH6QAUs1NaurKAXCRZMrI0CHCAJWri4xM1e k2pCGlo3NWXxk5hGwh+APiRM9Ug05fYXk4ZtIUO+Z8FR5Q2YCsUhOSGEEf+EkUynwYSi lEL1i93QlRV8ng0IewEqeJqYgIm8EcYUSyb5I6YX+dTI7CpqE9JCGC1QGAp0Tzv4DUBX z56w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1678821518; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=BJ5sUIsJhsxfa4vzu9Oo/U8Zp6eR6qzDA/4ztMyjGWs=; b=kGUBjkn36FH7szcRHRpAlQJow7Z4w6CsaSxh9ZLIuaxfuwyUtfObI11Fm5gYcAxNC/ nkPxkntIczpJsNFhgo7lbnd8URiYls5qhfvumTizkvOfD4BapXr9tlf0au/08OgSnKmV HNCMolScumtURSZZC9yCY/74/ohlUYu8VbYTKD8fL0wCk8NHfilWG/3XCMoGNUNVfU7d XK9w5SHsTgEMsJd/pOT4sNDiKLq3f7BTgisbaZbrOsDg2rzCf3KnIRxEtusrXdRz/Usa Id713oKcXJEOilKtDldJ3dtTkGWkfu0NRrB3WU9aIZRfx7/T24xblIuyPypNmnySZXTd BWWQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AO0yUKWseaMluEr+Y6kTRxIBShTq1s0inZzCR+8cjUYL0niMVDTUZozJ LQoZFhYSBPmt7Adp98Z4iJ3LZW9hGrp1GDSBPNRkYK1r X-Google-Smtp-Source: AK7set9L5QzNgBbR1k4qDAMfg6SX2E9kFx+CDbTbasO0YFMseW7xIT2FmoMLtprYEcOs+o9h178hy+2UaRCpGixIzb0= X-Received: by 2002:a81:ac08:0:b0:544:51f7:83c5 with SMTP id k8-20020a81ac08000000b0054451f783c5mr3783851ywh.1.1678821517717; Tue, 14 Mar 2023 12:18:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3CD0B9E6-0B2A-4A70-8F53-ED0822DF77A6@gmx.de> <13DE6E53-665F-4C20-BBE2-70E685421E9D@gmx.de> <22C819FA-DDD7-4B9B-8C09-8008D4273287@gmx.de> <5e7fac51071bdbb20837e72e7eedfc7c@rjmcmahon.com> <3f45d2a0b6e46d7b2775fb801e805f93@rjmcmahon.com> <70F71290-C6CB-4D19-8A88-F0F17C0BDDA2@gmx.de> <5e0cd693c4749d128dbb48d6c1129071@rjmcmahon.com> <2ab2983d-6beb-49cb-8c35-e481cbfdc7a3@Spark> <89c55d67-86f0-494d-a09e-c9aeebe46dc0@rjmcmahon.com> <70CBB03C-4394-4A93-BBB5-7449DC1AAF9C@gmx.de> <063359bf-5bf3-4688-852c-a7d81e6b80a3@rjmcmahon.com> In-Reply-To: <063359bf-5bf3-4688-852c-a7d81e6b80a3@rjmcmahon.com> From: dan Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2023 13:18:26 -0600 Message-ID: To: Robert McMahon Cc: Sebastian Moeller , Dave Taht via Starlink , Mike Puchol , bloat , Rpm , libreqos Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Rpm] [LibreQoS] [Bloat] [Starlink] On FiWi X-BeenThere: rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: revolutions per minute - a new metric for measuring responsiveness List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2023 19:18:38 -0000 end users are still going to want their own router/firewall. That's my point, I don't see how you can have that on-prem firewall while having a remote radio that's useful. I would adamantly oppose anyone I know passing their firewall off to the upstream vendor. I run an MSP and I would offer a customer to drop my services if they were to buy into something like this on the business side. So I really only see this sort of concept for campus networks where the end users are 'part' of the entity. On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 12:14=E2=80=AFPM Robert McMahon wrote: > > It's not discrete routers. It's more like a transceiver. WiFi is already= splitting at the MAC for MLO. I perceive two choices for the split, one at= the PHY DAC or, two, a minimalist 802.3 tunneling of 802.11 back to the Fi= Wi head end. Use 802.3 to leverage merchant silicon supporting up to 200 or= so RRHs or even move the baseband DSP there. I think a split PHY may not w= ork well but a thorough eng analysis is still warranted. > > Bob > > > > Get BlueMail for Android > On Mar 14, 2023, at 10:54 AM, dan wrote: >>> >>> You could always do it yourself. >>> >>> Most people need high skilled network engineers to provide them IT ser= vices. This need is only going to grow and grow. We can help by producing b= etter and simpler offerings, be they DIY or by service providers. >>> >>> Steve Job's almost didn't support the iPhone development because he ha= ted "the orifices." Probably time for many of us to revisit our belief set.= Does it move the needle, even if imperfectly? >>> >>> FiWi blows the needle off the gauge by my judgment. Who does it is sec= ondary. >>> >>> Bob >> >> >> most people are unwilling to pay for those services also lol. >> >> I don't see the paradigm of discreet routers/nat per prem anytime >> soon. If you subtract that piece of it then we're basically just >> talking XGSPON or similar.