From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-yb1-xb2f.google.com (mail-yb1-xb2f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0101D3CB37; Tue, 14 Mar 2023 13:54:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-yb1-xb2f.google.com with SMTP id r1so3871694ybu.5; Tue, 14 Mar 2023 10:54:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; t=1678816455; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=zzswf2GXmLGwIh9T2NOyGrbn0aX6JfRkRiKt3NCOw7s=; b=gTjT2KMSmchMWRT6y0EPyvo2k3UFiL1Ro/6oQ0YDDdr2wCNtcfBddoZhf3cncuj7qs 5dJAYI0FMPWZJuBVceqgS/H/X0cmWa2hfQ/Swvv8/XqGKtmRRxhr2HNgeL43oDeX41Tl norxoS8hxh4tDERopV30PiZ9bvbGWV5LHGVLb/bNu/a7HLu2Pfswg2RyWVI02O9n3OF8 eSl2QiZMNFTK2RacRhyqNXwAMUpWPcZDQGiJRFA9V+xq2zB9hOk6Xw8oMBs+fRw52C3S uKEbkxkJcgkBPf3h4QxX/OvBazbWN31ALZ3lUshcx8WHpePwpauEXOdN8k4ZJt+kHBCI Lc7g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1678816455; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=zzswf2GXmLGwIh9T2NOyGrbn0aX6JfRkRiKt3NCOw7s=; b=7gc8UYQc8vzAaErC63sPw1EB2+I0dAeB+04eY0Dmwcp03QH8+MF/QjlZBJ61W64pKo 9gE4GQEww1GuD880EW162FJDVvb1NX1dErGTro0cbEAKDBmZVVL+rBFcyhRvTRHPbu5D 9icoq+hEuTXsO49wP5bInx6Jt47sbGjFRmh+xSlEkaa89FbCI87ttSnwBWDqFToZR8S3 6GW1Jqj/YTQ7uhTTZ4wixL6uSRvVTPtJJicj3PepBExaC6h7ZgPRo2RvxJ0DfhraartC XzSgr70vUaO0I7ZH2LRCeJKmMtR3K0WiYXe/2Lj6X8C1ypIN7LWJ4JxRWDU1Jon9Fbu4 w9Og== X-Gm-Message-State: AO0yUKVVlBZlOYyXa2dwupzoss7L+ZgWHR5V+Pk/tdmXwFTBW073aZGd LSsAkmeWJ36Zh+7esd5V0Yh1nOp/Qneo56t3Fdo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AK7set/wdsIzpdCTLqTh3XdvfBdez88GxzKRpl7QSnR14yRBKN4o/9LGFglkZ6v0XHBvqex5Oz4OOA/TugbKcGrDD1o= X-Received: by 2002:a5b:68c:0:b0:b30:d9c:b393 with SMTP id j12-20020a5b068c000000b00b300d9cb393mr9714177ybq.12.1678816455329; Tue, 14 Mar 2023 10:54:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3CD0B9E6-0B2A-4A70-8F53-ED0822DF77A6@gmx.de> <13DE6E53-665F-4C20-BBE2-70E685421E9D@gmx.de> <22C819FA-DDD7-4B9B-8C09-8008D4273287@gmx.de> <5e7fac51071bdbb20837e72e7eedfc7c@rjmcmahon.com> <3f45d2a0b6e46d7b2775fb801e805f93@rjmcmahon.com> <70F71290-C6CB-4D19-8A88-F0F17C0BDDA2@gmx.de> <5e0cd693c4749d128dbb48d6c1129071@rjmcmahon.com> <2ab2983d-6beb-49cb-8c35-e481cbfdc7a3@Spark> <89c55d67-86f0-494d-a09e-c9aeebe46dc0@rjmcmahon.com> <70CBB03C-4394-4A93-BBB5-7449DC1AAF9C@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: From: dan Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2023 11:54:04 -0600 Message-ID: To: Robert McMahon Cc: Sebastian Moeller , Dave Taht via Starlink , Mike Puchol , bloat , Rpm , libreqos Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Subject: Re: [Rpm] [LibreQoS] [Bloat] [Starlink] On FiWi X-BeenThere: rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: revolutions per minute - a new metric for measuring responsiveness List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2023 17:54:16 -0000 > You could always do it yourself. > > Most people need high skilled network engineers to provide them IT services. This need is only going to grow and grow. We can help by producing better and simpler offerings, be they DIY or by service providers. > > Steve Job's almost didn't support the iPhone development because he hated "the orifices." Probably time for many of us to revisit our belief set. Does it move the needle, even if imperfectly? > > FiWi blows the needle off the gauge by my judgment. Who does it is secondary. > > Bob most people are unwilling to pay for those services also lol. I don't see the paradigm of discreet routers/nat per prem anytime soon. If you subtract that piece of it then we're basically just talking XGSPON or similar.