From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ed1-x531.google.com (mail-ed1-x531.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::531]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2FDF23CB41 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2023 16:10:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-ed1-x531.google.com with SMTP id b20so20960682edd.1 for ; Sat, 25 Mar 2023 13:10:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=perens.com; s=google; t=1679775035; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=V6qrfNu8iY0m2RIEg/roHwvujK5iiCqI5ny0SLvt4X0=; b=kQkfB7jmdsaauzoU8DOnIBS1dgI6fU6cD7w9dfZDqKzgolyLSjHPP41rNfLTwltaCb oUuNf2quaMkZOtJT9akcyPYGcTMoNOp87QxBxpwAaHVy981ZHGuUoPD7QpDaOGPY/xsw fz8AL42YxrpNkbhwLb/mOrmZ4wKNd7GZO54Us= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1679775035; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=V6qrfNu8iY0m2RIEg/roHwvujK5iiCqI5ny0SLvt4X0=; b=fDks2azpcbOjyBKTaeGz1oJzlR/7RzgvnPpHLhcXdudR/fgfr8TOLgPmybNCjmaJBB Q5vjeb9VzITB93yPea09tEOlWr58+HMPcQ/4HotyISPciZXx3PbdEo3tXXwLvCEW8WND hGb0o5ldcySj6GoQYjrXzJT233qJ3JKeTqSec2hewQy4xnDFQoNfGsltaccuhzPAFgVN aqkZGvF2+jNK59M/kRX9RgF08wr36k2tonM+jbSGQ2W6IfvCcz0a39FYvL+jwmGJBbGC UTjz//be6z5KKYn/aYHxqGfVQW2gTMBWQo0yxvj3tfj60MfP1cfUsVFwKk9fikoEk827 TTKQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9fMAk0wv8PL0YqHi+CcKUKcfQb/2ze6cCtdRyohpeFjYGsI/VMR VmaRQ/I3D/1ycvrO3rzi0NNQ/tvte3ubIVVcu2Dxig== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350aI7gqEuqElOs2vtHMpZx20x3xeDBTQ3meGNciqZ6gsrMMvOCeW3vzNaBuCzztGl3NtSQutukq7PM1Lu6fqEK0= X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:c317:b0:930:310:abef with SMTP id tl23-20020a170907c31700b009300310abefmr4216111ejc.3.1679775034600; Sat, 25 Mar 2023 13:10:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1d6c10c9a692bb3f2869fb1b40fa449a@rjmcmahon.com> <005d1e7e3e1d19bce308436e46a3ec5e@rjmcmahon.com> <569691b3e7dfc57bbf98c4fc168fc6cf@rjmcmahon.com> <2885829.1679221616@dyas> <20230321001019.GA4531@sunf68.rd.bbc.co.uk> <4295238B-FA57-49B6-B57B-78FFB2603B90@gmx.de> <8301258b8fffa18bd14279bff043dd03@rjmcmahon.com> <43bcbc338aecb44a1bef49489ab6f9c8@rjmcmahon.com> <60e70b637df76234639780ab08f25d82@rjmcmahon.com> In-Reply-To: <60e70b637df76234639780ab08f25d82@rjmcmahon.com> From: Bruce Perens Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2023 13:09:42 -0700 Message-ID: To: rjmcmahon Cc: Rpm , dan , Frantisek Borsik , libreqos , Dave Taht via Starlink , bloat Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003d880c05f7bf1ac0" Subject: Re: [Rpm] [Starlink] On fiber as critical infrastructure w/Comcast chat X-BeenThere: rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: revolutions per minute - a new metric for measuring responsiveness List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2023 20:10:36 -0000 --0000000000003d880c05f7bf1ac0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I've never met a Comcast sales person who was able to operate at the level you're talking about. I think you would do better with a smaller company. I think you were also unrealistic if not disingenuous about lives put at risk. Alarms do not require more than 300 baud. Comcast would actually like to sell individual internet service for each of the five units. That's what they're geared to do. You're not going to get that very high speed rate for that ridiculously low price and fan it out to five domiciles. They would offer that for a single home and the users that could be expected in a single home, or maybe a small business but I think they would charge a business more. I pay Comcast more for a very small business at a lower rate. I think realistically the fiber connections you're talking about at the data rate you request in the privilege of fanning out to five domiciles should cost about $2400 per month. I get the complaint about wires on the outside etc. But who are you expecting to do that work? If you expect Comcast and their competitors to do that as part of their standard installation, you're asking for tens of thousands of dollars of work, and if that is to be the standard then everyone must pay much more than today. Nobody wants that, and most folks don't care about the current standard of installation. If this mattered enough to your homeowners association, they could pay for it. On Sat, Mar 25, 2023, 12:39 rjmcmahon via Starlink < starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > Hi All, > > I've been trying to modernize a building in Boston where I'm an HOA > board member over the last 18 mos. I perceive the broadband network as a > critical infrastructure to our 5 unit building. > > Unfortunately, Comcast staff doesn't seem to agree. The agent basically > closed the chat on me mid-stream (chat attached.) I've been at this for > about 18 mos now. > > While I think bufferbloat is a big issue, the bigger issue is that our > last-mile providers must change their cultures to understand that life > support use cases that require proper pathways, conduits & cabling can > no longer be ignored. These buildings have coaxial thrown over the > exterior walls done in the 80s then drilling holes without consideration > of structures. This and the lack of environmental protections for our > HOA's critical infrastructure is disheartening. It's past time to remove > this shoddy work on our building and all buildings in Boston as well as > across the globe. > > My hope was by now I'd have shown through actions what a historic > building in Boston looks like when we, as humans in our short lives, act > as both stewards of history and as responsible guardians to those that > share living spaces and neighborhoods today & tomorrow. Motivating > humans to better serve one another is hard. > > Bob_______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > --0000000000003d880c05f7bf1ac0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I've never met a Comcast sales person who was able to= operate at the level you're talking about. I think you would do better= with a smaller company.

I thi= nk you were also unrealistic if not disingenuous about lives put at risk. A= larms do not require more than 300 baud.

<= div dir=3D"auto">Comcast would actually like to sell individual internet se= rvice for each of the five units. That's what they're geared to do.= You're not going to get that very high speed rate for that ridiculousl= y low price and fan it out to five domiciles. They would offer that for a s= ingle home and the users that could be expected in a single home, or maybe = a small business but I think they would charge a business more. I pay Comca= st more for a very small business at a lower rate.
<= br>
I think realistically the fiber connections you&= #39;re talking about at the data rate you request in the privilege of fanni= ng out to five domiciles should cost about $2400 per month.=C2=A0

I get the complaint about wires o= n the outside etc. But who are you expecting to do that work? If you expect= Comcast and their competitors to do that as part of their standard install= ation, you're asking for tens of thousands of dollars of work, and if t= hat is to be the standard then everyone must pay much more than today. Nobo= dy wants that, and most folks don't care about the current standard of = installation. If this mattered enough to your homeowners association, they = could pay for it.=C2=A0

=


=
On Sat, Mar 25, 2023, 12:39 rjmcmahon= via Starlink <starlin= k@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
Hi All,

I've been trying to modernize a building in Boston where I'm an HOA=
board member over the last 18 mos. I perceive the broadband network as a critical infrastructure to our 5 unit building.

Unfortunately, Comcast staff doesn't seem to agree. The agent basically=
closed the chat on me mid-stream (chat attached.) I've been at this for=
about 18 mos now.

While I think bufferbloat is a big issue, the bigger issue is that our
last-mile providers must change their cultures to understand that life
support use cases that require proper pathways, conduits & cabling can =
no longer be ignored. These buildings have coaxial thrown over the
exterior walls done in the 80s then drilling holes without consideration of structures. This and the lack of environmental protections for our
HOA's critical infrastructure is disheartening. It's past time to r= emove
this shoddy work on our building and all buildings in Boston as well as across the globe.

My hope was by now I'd have shown through actions what a historic
building in Boston looks like when we, as humans in our short lives, act as both stewards of history and as responsible guardians to those that
share living spaces and neighborhoods today & tomorrow. Motivating
humans to better serve one another is hard.

Bob_______________________________________________
Starlink mailing list
Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/sta= rlink
--0000000000003d880c05f7bf1ac0--