From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from ma-mailsvcp-mx-lapp01.apple.com (ma-mailsvcp-mx-lapp01.apple.com [17.32.222.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E97C63B29E for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 17:17:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from rn-mailsvcp-mta-lapp02.rno.apple.com (rn-mailsvcp-mta-lapp02.rno.apple.com [10.225.203.150]) by ma-mailsvcp-mx-lapp01.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.1.0.22.20230228 64bit (built Feb 28 2023)) with ESMTPS id <0RT400A8GJ4WWH20@ma-mailsvcp-mx-lapp01.apple.com> for rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 14:17:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: RjB1rXAile22vdygv0P9THyxAdojfDlF X-Proofpoint-GUID: RjB1rXAile22vdygv0P9THyxAdojfDlF X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.573, 18.0.942 definitions=2023-04-11_15:2023-04-11, 2023-04-11 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=interactive_user_notspam policy=interactive_user score=0 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2303200000 definitions=main-2304110198 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apple.com; h=content-type : mime-version : subject : from : in-reply-to : date : cc : content-transfer-encoding : message-id : references : to; s=20180706; bh=EGTfX2TQtXpkiphXO6QlP3zfU2qlBvwDEjTkySf2QfM=; b=hSiEIObUfv9t3/Hn3NE8j+hBJbemlNN3RXqPun6D7qeLGwnNmjjEvgHPs1Ec9K8HnCtD aU0E1i/I+HJHaHtbDp3xiTJyxuHo8F200EJp0DzmpFxEZpq+dq5agr7DdegwVHWT1nbM UZUx4XJHd8Wn5L/EvtRmamzdluYpGgJp6wKluAckvS2s1tNpUhXq4IamZgYjXHB5WK2n bCAv5LHv30pB+4tWoIiWesyPKrynOOmVX692/RgW6ofWHLyTXfMGJp/5ZoM8ASliIkVl YzP33GEOzZTofGno2T0qfDQ8UkbjDng9rTPLR5zTRcLSWCnL/eOHhaklrm1I667GU71J Og== Received: from rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp04.rno.apple.com (rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp04.rno.apple.com [17.179.253.17]) by rn-mailsvcp-mta-lapp02.rno.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.1.0.22.20230228 64bit (built Feb 28 2023)) with ESMTPS id <0RT400Y1SJ4XT9R0@rn-mailsvcp-mta-lapp02.rno.apple.com>; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 14:17:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from process_milters-daemon.rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp04.rno.apple.com by rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp04.rno.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.1.0.22.20230228 64bit (built Feb 28 2023)) id <0RT400S00J4UF100@rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp04.rno.apple.com>; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 14:17:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Va-A: X-Va-T-CD: 32d6bca4cf45698a16b9e6590d58e58e X-Va-E-CD: c62d72b36256a7339fac07c182e49145 X-Va-R-CD: 4562d88785e21cbc6fd549c6e10f0e45 X-Va-ID: efdb6092-be6c-4ee8-afdc-33590d0ce7aa X-Va-CD: 0 X-V-A: X-V-T-CD: 32d6bca4cf45698a16b9e6590d58e58e X-V-E-CD: c62d72b36256a7339fac07c182e49145 X-V-R-CD: 4562d88785e21cbc6fd549c6e10f0e45 X-V-ID: 44fa94a2-24f9-43fd-bfad-6432e125a3f3 X-V-CD: 0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.573, 18.0.942 definitions=2023-04-14_13:2023-04-13, 2023-04-14 signatures=0 Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [17.234.68.4]) by rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp04.rno.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.1.0.22.20230228 64bit (built Feb 28 2023)) with ESMTPSA id <0RT400SKTJ4XGO00@rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp04.rno.apple.com>; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 14:17:22 -0700 (PDT) Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 MIME-version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3731.500.221\)) From: Christoph Paasch In-reply-to: Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2023 14:17:11 -0700 Cc: Rpm Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Message-id: References: To: Dave Taht X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3731.500.221) Subject: Re: [Rpm] the de-evolution of rpm X-BeenThere: rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: revolutions per minute - a new metric for measuring responsiveness List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2023 21:17:27 -0000 Hello, > On Apr 14, 2023, at 2:02 PM, Dave Taht wrote: >=20 > I was not aware until this moment of the existence of the slack > channel, poor me! No worries! I think we announced it a while back here on the list. > Anyway (all?), should I discontinue this mailing list, in preference > for that? I have had had a tendency to cc rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net on > more general measurement stuff, but perhaps ippm or slack would be a > better home for it now? There are 53 users on this list, but so few > postings besides the occasional cc from the bloat list. Yes, ok to close this mailing-list from my point-of-view. Christoph >=20 > On Fri, Apr 14, 2023 at 1:15=E2=80=AFPM Christoph Paasch = wrote: >>=20 >> Hello Dave, >>=20 >> On Apr 13, 2023, at 3:13 PM, Dave Taht via Rpm = wrote: >>=20 >> I have not been paying a lot of attention here of late. I objected to >> the enormous number of flows goresponsiveness was doing, and strongly >> suggested it run to time of first loss or mark. >>=20 >> I find 4 flows enough >> to stress out a network. >>=20 >>=20 >> 4 flows should often be enough to utilize a network at its full = capacity. However, are 4 flows going to provide you stable working = conditions in such a way that the bottleneck=E2=80=99s buffers are = entirely full over an extended period without fluctuations due to the = congestion-response of the individual flows? Also, what is the = convergence time to reach stable working conditions and full buffer = utilization at 4 flows? >>=20 >> Now, that being said. I don=E2=80=99t think that the exact number of = flows is that important. They just need to be enough to fill the buffers = in a stable way. All nit-picking on the number of flows just distracts = us from actually solving problems on the Internet. >>=20 >> Anyway, is the structure of networkQuality >> changing any in ippm? >>=20 >>=20 >> Yes, the IETF-draft is continuously evolving. You can read the latest = version at = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-responsiveness. >>=20 >> Discussions around the methodology and the development of the tools = as well as addressing issues we find in open-source networking stacks is = all happening at the =E2=80=9CNetwork-quality community=E2=80=9D, at = https://github.com/network-quality/community/wiki. We have a = slack-channel and a weekly meeting. Everyone who is actively working on = development is invited to join our slack-channel and attend the weekly = meetings. (The "active development" is a strong requirement ) >>=20 >>=20 >> Cheers, >> Christoph >>=20 >> Some context here: >>=20 >> = https://www.reddit.com/r/amazoneero/comments/12ksu9d/sqm_optimizing_for_vi= deoconferencing_and_gaming/jg4zsq2/?context=3D8&depth=3D9 >>=20 >>=20 >> -- >> AMA March 31: = https://www.broadband.io/c/broadband-grant-events/dave-taht >> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC >> _______________________________________________ >> Rpm mailing list >> Rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/rpm >>=20 >>=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > AMA March 31: = https://www.broadband.io/c/broadband-grant-events/dave-taht > Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC