[Rpm] Re: [Bloat] Re: [Cake] Re: XDP2 is here - from one and only Tom Herbert (almost to the date, 10 years after XDP was released)

[<BeckW@telekom.de>]

Interesting work! One problem of P4 is that the networking hardware varies so much in number of resources (queues, schedulers, policers, counters, table memory) that the code inevitably becomes tied to a certain system.
It will be difficult to abstract the peculiarities of systems -- eg Broadcom 88800 vs linux kernel -- in a good way.

Wolfgang

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Tom Herbert via Bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net> 
Gesendet: Dienstag, 9. September 2025 23:37
An: Frantisek Borsik <frantisek.borsik@gmail.com>
Cc: David P. Reed <dpreed@deepplum.com>; Cake List <cake@lists.bufferbloat.net>; codel@lists.bufferbloat.net; bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net>; Jeremy Austin via Rpm <rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Betreff: [Bloat] Re: [Cake] Re: XDP2 is here - from one and only Tom Herbert (almost to the date, 10 years after XDP was released)

On Tue, Sep 9, 2025, 5:03 PM Frantisek Borsik <frantisek.borsik@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Thanks a lot, David.
>
> I have asked Tom if he wants to join us and he should be here to chat 
> with us now.
>
> All the best,
>
> Frank
>
> Frantisek (Frank) Borsik
>
>
> *In loving memory of Dave Täht: *1965-2025
>
> https://deu01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flibr
> eqos.io%2F2025%2F04%2F01%2Fin-loving-memory-of-dave%2F&data=05%7C02%7C
> BeckW%40telekom.de%7C299d64b9b76b4d4cf88b08ddf039e105%7Cbde4dffc4b604c
> f68b04a5eeb25f5c4f%7C0%7C0%7C638930853609276702%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3
> d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoi
> TWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=TAA6NdEkB3KQQt8UhKqs3ZKuLj
> N7A9h9J9FAjNRDDuU%3D&reserved=0
>
>
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> linkedin.com%2Fin%2Ffrantisekborsik&data=05%7C02%7CBeckW%40telekom.de%
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> 7C0%7C0%7C638930853609297031%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiO
> nRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%
> 3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ucL7U%2FQ81ks09nVEGUbe%2FFq1rhJNLaegicv%2FLCV
> cIlg%3D&reserved=0
>
> Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714
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> Skype: casioa5302ca
>
> frantisek.borsik@gmail.com
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 9, 2025 at 10:25 PM David P. Reed <dpreed@deepplum.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Frank -
> >
> >
> >
> > I think it is interesting as a concept. A project I am advising has 
> > been using DPDK very effectively to get rid of the huge path and 
> > locking
> delays
> > in the current Linux network stack. XDP2 could be supported in a 
> > ring3
> > (user) address space, achieving a similar result.
>

HI David,

The idea is you could write the code in XDP2 and it would be compiled to DPDK or eBPF and the compiler would handle the optimizations.


> >
> >
> >
> > But I don't think XDP2 is going that direction - so it may be 
> > stuckinto the mess of kernel space networking. Adding eBPF only has 
> > made this more
> of
> > a mess, by the way (and adding a new "compiler" that needs to be 
> > veriried as safe for the kernel).


Think of XDP2 as the generalization of XDP to go beyond just the kernel.
The idea is that the user writes their datapath code once and they compile it to run in whatever targets they have-- DPDK, P4, other programmable hardware, and yes XDP/eBPF. It's really not limited to kernel networking.

As for the name XDP2, when we created XDP, eXpress DataPath, my vision was that it would be implementation agnostic. eBPF was the first instantiation for practicality, but now ten years later I think we can realize the initial vision.

Tom



>
> > I will be watching how this evolves.
> >
> >
> >
> > David
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tuesday, September 9, 2025 06:32, "Frantisek Borsik" < 
> > frantisek.borsik@gmail.com> said:
> >
> > > Hello to all,
> > >
> > > Looks interesting:
> > >
> >
> https://deu01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmedi
> um.com%2F%40tom_84912%2Fxdp2-this-changes-everything-at-least-for-ai-m
> l-infrastructure-850c1ba82771&data=05%7C02%7CBeckW%40telekom.de%7C299d
> 64b9b76b4d4cf88b08ddf039e105%7Cbde4dffc4b604cf68b04a5eeb25f5c4f%7C0%7C
> 0%7C638930853609308950%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWU
> sIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%
> 7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=RTLHTVFR540C8Psr73uiuRvkx1sSyjmlUIICEHFj0HA%3D&rese
> rved=0
> > >
> > >
> > > All the best,
> > >
> > > Frank
> > >
> > > Frantisek (Frank) Borsik
> > >
> > >
> > > *In loving memory of Dave Täht: *1965-2025
> > >
> > > https://deu01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2F
> > > libreqos.io%2F2025%2F04%2F01%2Fin-loving-memory-of-dave%2F&data=05
> > > %7C02%7CBeckW%40telekom.de%7C299d64b9b76b4d4cf88b08ddf039e105%7Cbd
> > > e4dffc4b604cf68b04a5eeb25f5c4f%7C0%7C0%7C638930853609323027%7CUnkn
> > > own%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAi
> > > OiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=98
> > > musUCMTZR4ID%2Bo6GYxWOX99aiYBspBUdh%2BNV1fzwc%3D&reserved=0
> > >
> > >
> > > https://deu01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2F
> > > www.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Ffrantisekborsik&data=05%7C02%7CBeckW%40tel
> > > ekom.de%7C299d64b9b76b4d4cf88b08ddf039e105%7Cbde4dffc4b604cf68b04a
> > > 5eeb25f5c4f%7C0%7C0%7C638930853609334239%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8e
> > > yJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjo
> > > iTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=0rD47zFeLVV1YDqMc5SO0
> > > xGWEOTrE3FOYv0mOqGF%2FW4%3D&reserved=0
> > >
> > > Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714
> > >
> > > iMessage, mobile: +420775230885
> > >
> > > Skype: casioa5302ca
> > >
> > > frantisek.borsik@gmail.com
> > > _______________________________________________
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