revolutions per minute - a new metric for measuring responsiveness
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From: rjmcmahon <rjmcmahon@rjmcmahon.com>
To: Sebastian Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de>
Cc: dan <dandenson@gmail.com>, Jeremy Austin <jeremy@aterlo.com>,
	Rpm <rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
	libreqos <libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
	Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
	bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Subject: [Rpm] On FiWi
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2023 21:27:23 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <bc1cfdf998bb6bb246a632f0dc0fe3a8@rjmcmahon.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <5e0cd693c4749d128dbb48d6c1129071@rjmcmahon.com>

To change the topic - curious to thoughts on FiWi.

Imagine a world with no copper cable called FiWi (Fiber,VCSEL/CMOS 
Radios, Antennas) and which is point to point inside a building 
connected to virtualized APs fiber hops away. Each remote radio head 
(RRH) would consume 5W or less and only when active. No need for things 
like zigbee, or meshes, or threads as each radio has a fiber connection 
via Corning's actifi or equivalent. Eliminate the AP/Client power 
imbalance. Plastics also can house smoke or other sensors.

Some reminders from Paul Baran in 1994 (and from David Reed)

o) Shorter range rf transceivers connected to fiber could produce a 
significant improvement - - tremendous improvement, really.
o) a mixture of terrestrial links plus shorter range radio links has the 
effect of increasing by orders and orders of magnitude the amount of 
frequency spectrum that can be made available.
o) By authorizing high power to support a few users to reach slightly 
longer distances we deprive ourselves of the opportunity to serve the 
many.
o) Communications systems can be built with 10dB ratio
o) Digital transmission when properly done allows a small signal to 
noise ratio to be used successfully to retrieve an error free signal.
o) And, never forget, any transmission capacity not used is wasted 
forever, like water over the dam. Not using such techniques represent 
lost opportunity.

And on waveguides:

o) "Fiber transmission loss is ~0.5dB/km for single mode fiber, 
independent of modulation"
o) “Copper cables and PCB traces are very frequency dependent.  At 
100Gb/s, the loss is in dB/inch."
o) "Free space: the power density of the radio waves decreases with the 
square of distance from the transmitting antenna due to spreading of the 
electromagnetic energy in space according to the inverse square law"

The sunk costs & long-lived parts of FiWi are the fiber and the CPE 
plastics & antennas, as CMOS radios+ & fiber/laser, e.g. VCSEL could be 
pluggable, allowing for field upgrades. Just like swapping out SFP in a 
data center.

This approach basically drives out WiFi latency by eliminating shared 
queues and increases capacity by orders of magnitude by leveraging 10dB 
in the spatial dimension, all of which is achieved by a physical design. 
Just place enough RRHs as needed (similar to a pop up sprinkler in an 
irrigation system.)

Start and build this for an MDU and the value of the building improves. 
Sadly, there seems no way to capture that value other than over long 
term use. It doesn't matter whether the leader of the HOA tries to 
capture the value or if a last mile provider tries. The value remains 
sunk or hidden with nothing on the asset side of the balance sheet. 
We've got a CAPEX spend that has to be made up via "OPEX returns" over 
years.

But the asset is there.

How do we do this?

Bob

  reply	other threads:[~2023-03-14  4:27 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 148+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <mailman.2651.1672779463.1281.starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
     [not found] ` <1672786712.106922180@apps.rackspace.com>
     [not found]   ` <F4CA66DA-516C-438A-8D8A-5F172E5DFA75@cable.comcast.com>
2023-01-09 15:26     ` [Rpm] [Starlink] Researchers Seeking Probe Volunteers in USA Dave Taht
2023-01-09 17:00       ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-01-09 17:04       ` [Rpm] [LibreQoS] " Jeremy Austin
2023-01-09 18:33         ` Dave Taht
2023-01-09 18:54       ` [Rpm] [EXTERNAL] " Livingood, Jason
2023-01-09 19:19         ` rjmcmahon
2023-01-09 19:56           ` [Rpm] [LibreQoS] " dan
2023-01-09 21:00             ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-13 10:02             ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 15:08               ` [Rpm] [Starlink] [LibreQoS] [EXTERNAL] " Jeremy Austin
2023-03-13 15:50                 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 16:06                   ` [Rpm] [Bloat] " Dave Taht
2023-03-13 16:19                     ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 16:12                   ` [Rpm] " dan
2023-03-13 16:36                     ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 17:26                       ` dan
2023-03-13 17:37                         ` Jeremy Austin
2023-03-13 18:34                           ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 18:14                         ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 18:42                           ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-13 18:51                             ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 19:32                               ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-13 20:00                                 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 20:28                                   ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-14  4:27                                     ` rjmcmahon [this message]
2023-03-14 11:10                                       ` [Rpm] [Starlink] On FiWi Mike Puchol
2023-03-14 16:54                                         ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-14 17:06                                           ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-14 17:11                                             ` [Rpm] [Bloat] " Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-14 17:35                                               ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-14 17:54                                                 ` [Rpm] [LibreQoS] " dan
2023-03-14 18:14                                                   ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-14 19:18                                                     ` dan
2023-03-14 19:30                                                       ` [Rpm] [Bloat] [LibreQoS] " Dave Taht
2023-03-14 20:06                                                         ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-14 19:30                                                       ` [Rpm] [LibreQoS] [Bloat] " rjmcmahon
2023-03-14 23:30                                                         ` [Rpm] [Starlink] [LibreQoS] [Bloat] " Bruce Perens
2023-03-15  0:11                                                           ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-15  5:20                                                             ` Bruce Perens
2023-03-15 16:17                                                               ` Aaron Wood
2023-03-15 17:05                                                                 ` Bruce Perens
2023-03-15 17:44                                                                   ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-15 19:22                                                                   ` [Rpm] [Bloat] [Starlink] [LibreQoS] " David Lang
2023-03-15 17:32                                                               ` [Rpm] [Starlink] [LibreQoS] [Bloat] " rjmcmahon
2023-03-15 17:42                                                                 ` dan
2023-03-15 19:33                                                                   ` [Rpm] [Bloat] [Starlink] [LibreQoS] " David Lang
2023-03-15 19:39                                                                     ` Dave Taht
2023-03-15 21:52                                                                       ` David Lang
2023-03-15 22:04                                                                         ` Dave Taht
2023-03-15 22:08                                                                           ` dan
2023-03-15 17:43                                                                 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-15 17:49                                                                   ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-15 17:53                                                                     ` Dave Taht
2023-03-15 17:59                                                                       ` dan
2023-03-15 19:39                                                                       ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-17 16:38                                         ` [Rpm] [Starlink] " Dave Taht
2023-03-17 18:21                                           ` Mike Puchol
2023-03-17 19:01                                           ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-17 19:19                                             ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-17 20:37                                               ` Bruce Perens
2023-03-17 20:57                                                 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-17 22:50                                                   ` Bruce Perens
2023-03-18 18:18                                                     ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-18 19:57                                                       ` [Rpm] [LibreQoS] " dan
2023-03-18 20:40                                                         ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-19 10:26                                                           ` [Rpm] [Starlink] [LibreQoS] " Michael Richardson
2023-03-19 21:00                                                             ` [Rpm] On metrics rjmcmahon
2023-03-20  0:26                                                               ` dan
2023-03-20  3:03                                                                 ` [Rpm] [Starlink] " David Lang
2023-03-20 20:46                                                             ` [Rpm] [Starlink] [LibreQoS] On FiWi Frantisek Borsik
2023-03-20 21:28                                                               ` dan
2023-03-20 21:38                                                                 ` Frantisek Borsik
2023-03-20 22:02                                                                   ` [Rpm] On FiWi power envelope rjmcmahon
2023-03-20 23:47                                                                     ` [Rpm] [Starlink] " Bruce Perens
2023-03-21  0:10                                                                 ` [Rpm] [Starlink] [LibreQoS] On FiWi Brandon Butterworth
2023-03-21  5:21                                                                   ` Frantisek Borsik
2023-03-21 11:26                                                                     ` [Rpm] Annoyed at 5/1 Mbps Rich Brown
2023-03-21 12:29                                                                     ` [Rpm] [Starlink] [LibreQoS] On FiWi Brandon Butterworth
2023-03-21 12:30                                                                   ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-21 17:42                                                                     ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-21 18:08                                                                       ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-21 18:51                                                                         ` Frantisek Borsik
2023-03-21 19:58                                                                           ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-21 20:06                                                                             ` [Rpm] [Bloat] " David Lang
2023-03-25 19:39                                                                             ` [Rpm] On fiber as critical infrastructure w/Comcast chat rjmcmahon
2023-03-25 20:09                                                                               ` [Rpm] [Starlink] " Bruce Perens
2023-03-25 20:47                                                                                 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-25 20:15                                                                               ` [Rpm] [Bloat] " Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-25 20:43                                                                                 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-25 21:08                                                                                   ` [Rpm] [Starlink] " Bruce Perens
2023-03-25 22:04                                                                                     ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-25 22:50                                                                                       ` dan
2023-03-25 23:21                                                                                         ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-25 23:35                                                                                           ` [Rpm] [Bloat] [Starlink] " David Lang
2023-03-26  0:04                                                                                             ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-26  0:07                                                                                               ` Nathan Owens
2023-03-26  0:50                                                                                                 ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-26  8:45                                                                                                 ` Livingood, Jason
2023-03-26 18:54                                                                                                   ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-26  0:28                                                                                               ` David Lang
2023-03-26  0:57                                                                                                 ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-25 22:57                                                                                       ` [Rpm] [Starlink] [Bloat] " Bruce Perens
2023-03-25 23:33                                                                                         ` [Rpm] [Bloat] [Starlink] " David Lang
2023-03-25 23:38                                                                                         ` [Rpm] [Starlink] [Bloat] " Robert McMahon
2023-03-25 23:20                                                                                       ` [Rpm] [Bloat] [Starlink] " David Lang
2023-03-26 18:29                                                                                         ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-26 10:34                                                                                   ` [Rpm] [Bloat] " Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-26 18:12                                                                                     ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-26 20:57                                                                                     ` David Lang
2023-03-25 20:27                                                                               ` [Rpm] " rjmcmahon
2023-03-17 23:15                                             ` [Rpm] [Bloat] [Starlink] On FiWi David Lang
2023-03-13 19:33                           ` [Rpm] [Starlink] [LibreQoS] [EXTERNAL] Re: Researchers Seeking Probe Volunteers in USA dan
2023-03-13 19:52                             ` Jeremy Austin
2023-03-13 21:00                               ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 21:27                                 ` dan
2023-03-14  9:11                                   ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 20:45                             ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 21:02                               ` [Rpm] When do you drop? Always! Dave Taht
2023-03-13 16:04                 ` [Rpm] UnderBloat on fiber and wisps Dave Taht
2023-03-13 16:09                   ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-01-09 20:49         ` [Rpm] [EXTERNAL] Re: [Starlink] Researchers Seeking Probe Volunteers in USA Dave Taht
2023-01-09 19:13       ` [Rpm] " rjmcmahon
2023-01-09 19:47         ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-01-11 18:32           ` Rodney W. Grimes
2023-01-11 20:01             ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-01-11 21:46               ` Dick Roy
2023-01-12  8:22                 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-01-12 18:02                   ` rjmcmahon
2023-01-12 21:34                     ` Dick Roy
2023-01-12 20:39                   ` Dick Roy
2023-01-13  7:33                     ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-01-13  8:26                       ` Dick Roy
2023-01-13  7:40                     ` rjmcmahon
2023-01-13  8:10                       ` Dick Roy
2023-01-15 23:09                         ` rjmcmahon
2023-01-11 20:09             ` rjmcmahon
2023-01-12  8:14               ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-01-12 17:49                 ` Robert McMahon
2023-01-12 21:57                   ` Dick Roy
2023-01-13  7:44                     ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-01-13  8:01                       ` Dick Roy
2023-01-09 20:20         ` Dave Taht
2023-01-09 20:46           ` rjmcmahon
2023-01-09 20:59             ` Dave Taht
2023-01-09 21:06               ` rjmcmahon
2023-01-09 21:18                 ` rjmcmahon
2023-01-09 21:02             ` Dick Roy
2023-01-10 17:36         ` David P. Reed

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