From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from au-smtp-delivery-117.mimecast.com (au-smtp-delivery-117.mimecast.com [103.96.21.117]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 27AFA3CB40 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2023 01:56:58 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=auckland.ac.nz; s=mimecast20200506; t=1698645416; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=sTa47NK9RA7M+he7YiHdw8fPWI09cFJ/DaEXh6uTV9M=; b=fOquclGbUU23QJsR+JcPvzsXJ7McYLv8+3SQ8KMULuQgMrJJPXqoMrmNN7BE1wSbVuJXGe MNRMUMj5ebUlelQHtexit2jJHVJB3acO0lhqSuDQpV6vF0UI3yaor95e1nbUggHrPlC6Pn v5zWJNTPWnTcsU4WNAgDXJypTbJYaTQ= Received: from AUS01-ME3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-me3aus01lp2232.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.71.232]) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP with STARTTLS (version=TLSv1.2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id au-mta-107-6asrIHOyOoexC7JIysMXsg-1; Mon, 30 Oct 2023 16:56:53 +1100 X-MC-Unique: 6asrIHOyOoexC7JIysMXsg-1 Received: from SY4PR01MB6979.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com (2603:10c6:10:142::13) by ME3PR01MB5767.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com (2603:10c6:220:ce::8) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.6933.19; Mon, 30 Oct 2023 05:56:51 +0000 Received: from SY4PR01MB6979.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::2e18:7aea:ff63:d3cb]) by SY4PR01MB6979.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::2e18:7aea:ff63:d3cb%5]) with mapi id 15.20.6933.023; Mon, 30 Oct 2023 05:56:51 +0000 Message-ID: <07fac4e4-809a-43ba-b46c-e0f468343e30@auckland.ac.nz> Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 18:56:50 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird To: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net References: From: Ulrich Speidel In-Reply-To: X-ClientProxiedBy: SY6PR01CA0035.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com (2603:10c6:10:eb::22) To SY4PR01MB6979.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com (2603:10c6:10:142::13) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: SY4PR01MB6979:EE_|ME3PR01MB5767:EE_ X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 09bceaea-ce37-4bce-230b-08dbd90d0352 X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-Relay: 0 X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0 X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: 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 X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SY4PR01MB6979.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230031)(346002)(376002)(39860400002)(366004)(136003)(396003)(230922051799003)(64100799003)(451199024)(1800799009)(186009)(2616005)(66946007)(66476007)(66574015)(66556008)(786003)(316002)(478600001)(6506007)(6486002)(966005)(6512007)(33964004)(53546011)(6916009)(31696002)(41300700001)(31686004)(38100700002)(2906002)(86362001)(40140700001)(5660300002)(36756003)(8676002)(83380400001)(166002)(8936002)(45980500001)(43740500002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0: =?utf-8?B?SUFRaVd0U2ZJRllWN21Ealp2dkhQTjZGQ0NzRDN3cnBJWmp3MG1PVHBxa1I4?= =?utf-8?B?ZHQrMWwxRmhqN0ZKMm9hV3JudzRoZlQxdVB3ZEIrTFhoUHlCY0dtNXVJbWV2?= =?utf-8?B?MWU0Skk0MEkrenJ2VC9sb1YzRzJlNVd5RVZSZC94cnBFK2NSYXpsTzF0QlBO?= =?utf-8?B?TEFmekJJck5UYm45cW82OWd2QUJOYzRWOXYxN2E3cXU0VmtBbjB1cWNmekF5?= =?utf-8?B?Y0VWOGZrUjNDcFhhbEJERml0b1d1eTUrc0RmWmxDMm1RNzM0NytJbFR6bGV5?= =?utf-8?B?UG1YSGdjeWdGemk3NjBDTGtVdXVBT1hudHdPWmExMmw2NyswR2RCNDE1VzRp?= =?utf-8?B?VC8rcDhhdC90dFNzN29UeEJzOWozZXBOcklxQWZLR0ZyU0hiVmxKR2I2YWVE?= =?utf-8?B?bHhlSTV2S0cxc2JQOGxJM2lxYjJ0b2ZnaVZRNWZLUXkyWGJrV0lqLzBOc05p?= =?utf-8?B?TlI3a1c1ejk5eHhrUmpxQlZhdWM2TFE5WE4xbHRxdmhYTFhseDZDTnU5dDN3?= =?utf-8?B?K1pRTXo3NDgxa2lQYU1paWJuQU10a1pxVWVzcUZWTFA5ZXcxZENzVFhGOTF5?= =?utf-8?B?VmhTZnlldWtNK3ljZDRUSU16TVVhMWxuU0pzT0NnZys0THE2OC9jMTBPOTU4?= =?utf-8?B?MXFZY3htTXF4cFk4RWgralZqQ0VSdG9IZ0Q4cU5odjJUYmpZWUhEMWF2K3Vs?= =?utf-8?B?RU1WSVBMQmZLdmhrUGFITlRFeEh4R3N1SnY3OUFNZm1VRnVuVTFMd2lCazht?= =?utf-8?B?VzBWZkJTQnpPSThuNkNnNGszQ1BSYVRDdGJycG5OeURLNnYySXFLcEFIR3VZ?= =?utf-8?B?NFJxT0M4K0h1YjBQMXJCNWthRUpXcXBieUs2bFR6NEpsUDZZck9oVnlab2VO?= =?utf-8?B?Q1pPSnNPa2FsSVFzTGF0MUVldEtyVmdWSnd2c0kwdHZ0dFpBZ2hyeVlBTWEy?= =?utf-8?B?VDFyWEZ2Qy9pMDhyVlVTNHZqVm94N3ViTzdNdkJKWnB6M2xBYms5M0Q5N1BP?= =?utf-8?B?N0ladU5QZmRKSm1QdG5wWnJZZU9zOXozY1ljak5hVWo3Z2VlREhtSmdYUVFk?= =?utf-8?B?UFIrZ1o5elJ1eDgzZGZ4aXRlcHJMZVFlM0R0Qmtjd09jTTc0UEcwT1FTTS82?= =?utf-8?B?RnRsN3lpZk1VbzRXMG5DS2lPQXZTQlVKTjE0T2Yxd2ZORmYwRTUzOTR5WlQ5?= =?utf-8?B?ZzM5ZnM2NnE4VjUyZ1pjOXhrYkZkSWw2cFBvdnRWU21hZURPbEVVb3NqSVpw?= =?utf-8?B?UjdSMVRhbERFMjFtWE56MFdkK1owRjRxUnIzUlNzYmtJYW5PSS9zQ1hRNjQv?= =?utf-8?B?QzZndW1ySTZMTTdsS3NqRVVDU1FjSWJLVC81dUFYZUdnMVdwLzRvTXlOZWQy?= =?utf-8?B?aElOUm15aE5ZWW83bElxbWQrZmVmUFdOUGtpMGlDUWsvSkpWcFNrSkpjaHFK?= =?utf-8?B?N3JxdXRqNGgybER0YzNUSUtnZm8zdE4vWHh0c3M2eXBUVHBSamNMeWlITXps?= =?utf-8?B?L2U1SkpvSDZBV1Z5ekg3QzhsaSt6SmRqWHhkai9xbjl2aml1K25zYjMxN3la?= =?utf-8?B?cE9wckFFendpdlNiemhpMlA5cjN5Wk1pTWZEUlpvQnBNWEtlam5DcVRYMnB2?= =?utf-8?B?TVNHc3FTL0hTVS94SVBxNjBxUU12MXlqTUoveTNkWUJZRWtsM2dYc0NjSDB6?= =?utf-8?B?WWVJWVdtZ3BHSWJ3aEVUdVFyZU8zYnRPd3ZEZHV2dnoyeTZYZkgzbGxTMWls?= =?utf-8?B?K2tLYlh0THJWWm9SN3RvaVN2TXEwSk9Ja2VlVWUzMURoOWJUVjU4M09zSEU4?= =?utf-8?B?RkdVL1VqdENBUmZndTJ5Tm1VakI1alM5WWNUYWszZkR3VVJpZ3pFSWpwUXg4?= =?utf-8?B?S1M0ZHVFNXBTeVl5UjNXdFYzTmhZeG1ZWlo0OHdMMzIvOGRzR0tSb2NkUXF1?= =?utf-8?B?akhpaUU4NTkvaWZRWWFsYjN6UFhYQUhXN0VSSzVyeU9sTmJObEZ4M3RNRVZP?= =?utf-8?B?ODFkZi9iUzNkSHZESis4NTVFdmNrek55UWtDQzRnNFlUME1QeThLUnBCRHZT?= =?utf-8?B?RFlIeWJFMmR4L055ZFUrNFRuOC9QRjhRN3h4dWlMK3NyTGJid0VTdGdHNGlz?= =?utf-8?B?bVFtMDdNS0VVMzRLbW9GTTFISUxIKzJvV3IwS3cvS1o3OGFVY0ovYS94MGdo?= =?utf-8?B?TUtxWC82Z003Qi9CWGdqYVJlSGpGd3krRkM3ZUVTNzRrWlNJWWE0Nk1EeHp2?= =?utf-8?B?cnpoeDBTMXBvL1AwZWJ6a0FUbS93PT0=?= X-OriginatorOrg: auckland.ac.nz X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 09bceaea-ce37-4bce-230b-08dbd90d0352 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SY4PR01MB6979.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Oct 2023 05:56:51.7665 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: d1b36e95-0d50-42e9-958f-b63fa906beaa X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: U1WrYYXX1n9wweWD21ngmRBOZSpytMLeumv/YsQQo++znQ/E6ZhIWeOkEPvDk86oi2Os5VxVgnQJD08qRRj1d56h5FTpva1ayFR9MonlUW4= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: ME3PR01MB5767 X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: auckland.ac.nz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------hJ4POH0ir0S0pLYcJmRUgV3h" Content-Language: en-US Subject: Re: [Starlink] "Interesting set of developments with Starlink. Musk says they will support "international aid orgs" in Gaza, Israel now says they will use "all available means" to stop SpaceX from doing so. X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 05:56:59 -0000 --------------hJ4POH0ir0S0pLYcJmRUgV3h Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The main problem as it stands with Gaza would be to get Starlink=20 equipment in for the international organisations to use. Coverage=20 wouldn't be an issue, but power and bandwidth would be. It's a pretty dire situation. Palestinian friends of ours have had=20 extended family killed, the wife's mother is currently visiting here and=20 can't go back obviously - plus her apartment got flattened in her=20 absence early on. Then our friend's teenage kids from his previous=20 marriage got buried under rubble when their mother's place got=20 flattened, and that was just up to last week. I really need to ask him=20 what's happened since. They came here because they were sick of Hamas. On the ham radio side, I helped a bit with band watch for MARS (military=20 affiliated amateur radio system) during the first Gulf War when the=20 local US garrison (Old Ironsides) got sent from Germany to Saudi Arabia.=20 A lot of them found out the hard way that if you have a bank account in=20 Germany and you're on deployment, your significant other doesn't=20 automatically get access to it like apparently they do in the US, and=20 the army didn't exactly think that it was their problem, either. Got to=20 listen to a lot of that. First world problems compared to Gaza, though. On 30/10/2023 5:32 pm, Joe Hamelin via Starlink wrote: > The US did shut down ham radio during WW2. > > On Sun, Oct 29, 2023 at 9:27=E2=80=AFAM Dave Taht via Starlink=20 > wrote: > > I think that the internet should stay up, connecting people to people= , > through all the conflicts we may ever have. The mails kept running - > although censored - all through world war two - the red cross, allowe= d > by all sides, to keep it's relief missions running, the churches > (mostly) doing their job to console the weary... > > Many other orgs, like the ITU, and the IETF, are committed to the > continued free exchange of information, no matter what. > > https://www.itu.int/en/about/Pages/default.aspx > > > I am happy to see a worldwide ISP committed to the same principles. > > On Sun, Oct 29, 2023 at 9:07=E2=80=AFAM the keyboard of geoff goodfel= low via > Starlink wrote: > > > > =E2=9E=94=E2=9E=94https://twitter.com/dburbach/status/1718638348812= 595660 > > > > > -- > > Geoff.Goodfellow@iconia.com > > living as The Truth is True > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Starlink mailing list > > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > > > > > --=20 > Oct 30: > https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof.html > > Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > > > > > --=20 > -- > Joe Hamelin, W7COM, Tulalip, WA, 360-474-7474 > > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > --=20 **************************************************************** Dr. Ulrich Speidel School of Computer Science Room 303S.594 (City Campus) The University of Auckland u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz =20 http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/ **************************************************************** --------------hJ4POH0ir0S0pLYcJmRUgV3h Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The main problem as it stands with Gaza would be to get Starlink equipment in for the international organisations to use. Coverage wouldn't be an issue, but power and bandwidth would be.

It's a pretty dire situation. Palestinian friends of ours have had extended family killed, the wife's mother is currently visiting here and can't go back obviously - plus her apartment got flattened in her absence early on. Then our friend's teenage kids from his previous marriage got buried under rubble when their mother's place got flattened, and that was just up to last week. I really need to ask him what's happened since. They came here because they were sick of Hamas.

On the ham radio side, I helped a bit with band watch for MARS (military affiliated amateur radio system) during the first Gulf War when the local US garrison (Old Ironsides) got sent from Germany to Saudi Arabia. A lot of them found out the hard way that if you have a bank account in Germany and you're on deployment, your significant other doesn't automatically get access to it like apparently they do in the US, and the army didn't exactly think that it was their problem, either. Got to listen to a lot of that. First world problems compared to Gaza, though.

On 30/10/2023 5:32 pm, Joe Hamelin via Starlink wrote:
=20
The US did shut down ham radio during WW2.

On Sun, Oct 29, 2023 at 9:27=E2=80=AFAM Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
I think that the internet should stay up, connecting people to people,
through all the conflicts we may ever have. The mails kept running -
although censored - all through world war two - the red cross, allowed
by all sides, to keep it's relief missions running, the churches
(mostly) doing their job to console the weary...

Many other orgs, like the ITU, and the IETF, are committed to the
continued free exchange of information, no matter what.

https://www.itu.= int/en/about/Pages/default.aspx

I am happy to see a worldwide ISP committed to the same principles.

On Sun, Oct 29, 2023 at 9:07=E2=80=AFAM the keyboard of geoff goodfellow via
Starlink <st= arlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
> =E2=9E=94=E2=9E=94https://twitter.com/dburbach/status/1718638348812595660 >
> --
> Geoff.Goodfel= low@iconia.com
> living as The Truth is True
>
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@l= ists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists= .bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink



--
Oct 30: https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof.= html
Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos
_______________________________________________
Starlink mailing list
Starlink@lists.= bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bu= fferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink


--
--
Joe Hamelin, W7COM, Tulalip, WA, 360-474-7474

______________________________=
_________________
Starlink mailing list
Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink


--=20
****************************************************************
Dr. Ulrich Speidel

School of Computer Science

Room 303S.594 (City Campus)

The University of Auckland
u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz=20
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/
****************************************************************
--------------hJ4POH0ir0S0pLYcJmRUgV3h--