From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from vsmx001.dclux.xion.oxcs.net (vsmx001.dclux.xion.oxcs.net [185.74.65.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C5243B29D for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2024 19:01:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from submission-proxy-644b7cfbbf-smd7k (unknown [104.133.3.89]) by mx-out.dclux.xion.oxcs.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id B0F9DA60EF5 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 2024 23:01:14 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=dclux.xion.oxcs.net; s=mail1; t=1717542075; bh=9VV59L51nVZOGxmZwf8QXkMEw5IgOCgQEGknIchTb78=; h=Date:From:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From; b=QrqlTeKmxEV8EX0n1m+JdDnmBuI7YbjxQZRFKY0JwLEvsH4OYusxaanSWjbWh+d83 U5Ts6yvmi2myGYvROZ+5sX6h7jLNLGLBq7K6U2ii+wKjgsYk5EBLlQMCeowpxkVYKD ZfPzW0y2YqhbW0ho9OY76g1mePmTdg5n7IhDq7umquDnp+Gf78zc555RvhtMNpXzIz aVsnGslMoh1M3DcVoycrnaWS5+9FjyEf0mSSYk60t9CJRAl4AQeXM3QkrVKK6mrLxH IA+LL9MH5xAZ//GrTBZy6ibCg+AmhzpOIU5pd4fnzb6K0kQiHzUpeqipbKALWvpzHt XLJMs2mTLVDMQ== Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2024 01:01:14 +0200 (CEST) From: Mike Puchol To: Michael Richardson via Starlink Message-ID: <1011428206.2534598.1717542074644@www.openxchange.eu> In-Reply-To: <9687.1717527495@obiwan.sandelman.ca> References: <32AD770E-336E-4CF4-8B1B-8AE7353981CC@ieee.org> <9687.1717527495@obiwan.sandelman.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v8.24.36 X-Originating-IP: 104.133.3.89 X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite X-VadeSecure-Status: LEGIT X-VADE-STATUS: LEGIT Subject: Re: [Starlink] SpaceX/Starlink says it's ready for a fall satellite-to-cell service with T-Mobile X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2024 23:01:17 -0000 There are certain resource-saving techniques that cannot be used in the DTC= service, such as Location Area (LA). In terrestrial networks, an LA groups= several cells, and as long as the UE is able to listen to pages from a cel= l in the same LA, it does not need to re-attach each time it roams to a dif= ferent cell. This was a big saver years ago, today with 4G/LTE and 5G, most UEs are cons= tantly doing something in the background, and there isn't much gain from LA= use.=20 Something else that's much harder to implement is MIMO, as you don't get pa= th diversity from a satellite. AST claims they will do this by using more t= han one satellite, however they haven't answered basic questions such as ho= w will the UE compensate the huge differences in doppler shift on top of th= e multiple paths. One other resource waste is the need to trick the device to overcome timing= advance - effectively transmissions are blindly ACK'd by the satellite in = the hopes they will go through, increasing the protocol overhead. What I did always notice when I traveled to e.g. Kenya was that the lower d= ensity of cells caused my phone to consume its battery a lot quicker than i= n e.g. Europe. With DTC, the UE is always going to be at the edge of the ce= ll, transmitting at maximum power, so the main use case is low data rate me= ssaging and emergencies IMHO. Best, Mike > On 04/06/2024 20:58 CEST Michael Richardson via Starlink wrote: >=20 > =20 > Eugene Y Chang via Starlink wrote: > > I observe a difference in my phone=E2=80=99s batter life between ur= ban and > > rural usage. I expect the battery life to be significantly reduced = with > > Starlink. And yes=E2=80=A6 if the phone isn=E2=80=99t communicatin= g then the battery >=20 > Sure, but if my phone is plugged into my car, and it's sitting on the > dashboard, that still seems like a win to me. > (Except for people who were hoping to unplug their kids by going camping) >=20 > The service across northern ontario, along the Trans-Canada is still very > poor (okay, I was last there in 2018). >=20 > --=20 > Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consul= ting ) > Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink