Re: [Starlink] [Bloat] [LibreQoS] Enabling a production model

[Sebastian Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de>]

Hi Dave,


> On Mar 29, 2023, at 21:11, Dave Collier-Brown via Bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> 
> It can be worse than that: if a monopoly owns the poles, you're going to have to bury your fibre. That will cost you something like $800,000 per mile, more if you have to cross a road.
> 
> In my home town, Chatham, Ontario, the local ISP is installing fibre underground because the duopoly of cable and telephone companies won't rent them pole space, much less bandwidth on their existing fibre.

	And that is why we can't have nice things... IMHO this also nicely demonstrates that giving monopoly power to private companies has side-effects. Side-effects that can be remedied by sufficiently strong rules and regulations (which companies fight tooth and claw against).

> This works for Chatham and Blenheim and a few others, but not for the smaller towns of Bothwell or Dresden, much less any of the villages or individual farms. They're out of luck.

	Yes, it seems pretty clear that the way to assert near universal internet access is not relaying on "the free market" alone, and likely requires not treating each individual link as individual project that needs to come out even (over a reasonable amortization horizon).

	Now, I am sure there are ISPs around that do not abuse their position and that aim at giving even rural users internet access at acceptable cost, but the big incumbents that deliver internet to the masses, in my limited experience do not excel at that unless "prodded" by rules and regulations.

Regards
	Sebastian

P.S.: dropped the bloat list, trying to appease Jan ;)


> 
> --dave
> 
> 
> 
> On 3/29/23 13:46, Rich Brown wrote:
>> [EXTERNAL] This email originated from outside the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mar 29, 2023, at 1:13 PM, David Lang via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> The problem is that laying cable (or provisioning wifi access to cover the area) is expensive, and if you try to have multiple different companies doing it, they each need a minimum density of users to make it worth their while.
>> 
>> Yes, this stuff is expensive, Here is reasonably current order-of-magnitude cost breakdown for a rural NH town nearby:
>> 
>> 1) $55,000 per road-mile to design the system, get licenses to install on the utility poles, "make ready" (to check that the poles are ready for new facilities) and to hang the fiber on the pole. Installing coax would save $5K to $8K per mile.
>> 
>> 2) $2,000 to $4,000 per premise to install the drop from the utility pole to the building, bring the fiber into the building and install the router. 
>> 
>> 3) Pole rental (in NH) is about $10/pole/year. Divide miles of road by 200 feet between poles to get an estimate of the number of poles.
>> 
>> So density of customers is critical for the business case. That's why there are so many monopoly providers - it's costly to overbuild an already served area.
>> 
> -- 
> David Collier-Brown,         | Always do right. This will gratify
> System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest
> 
> dave.collier-brown@indexexchange.com |              -- Mark Twain
> 
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