From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp118.iad3b.emailsrvr.com (smtp118.iad3b.emailsrvr.com [146.20.161.118]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C1473B2A4 for ; Fri, 14 Oct 2022 15:13:17 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=evslin.com; s=20220608-p431o605; t=1665774792; bh=7cUFCOt6cquGhXSJZPVfxYdYQNZZ7MX7wDm5vYjitiQ=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:From; b=OzLNj/G4l+2DS+bkU9ZKpkUg2MA/G1sckuOIsGnLKSjXJY42D7JzTOneq4W6r3o/g bVcHPbaBgjdQzJK22DFtzvLBCZTDrjSXbsVqN+ssmF+bUp/uFfLYEeYqCpr8VM9jbZ crQ7Oa/NCFoib3uSbfXPUTYNNd1cKCjCbgZ074vY= X-Auth-ID: tom@evslin.com Received: by smtp15.relay.iad3b.emailsrvr.com (Authenticated sender: tom-AT-evslin.com) with ESMTPSA id D8BA8C0140; Fri, 14 Oct 2022 15:13:11 -0400 (EDT) From: To: "'David Lang'" , "'Kurtis Heimerl'" Cc: "'Starlink list'" References: <8735bqpq1r.wl-jch@irif.fr> <38522124-6d3b-4ac8-bb20-92bfa35dc9fe@Spark> <87tu46o8e3.wl-jch@irif.fr> <3ea89257-d5f8-4fa9-a90a-c73d49d2a9e2@Spark> <87r0zao0f0.wl-jch@irif.fr> <398208s8-6080-r8q7-s6rs-q9np11428n3o@ynat.uz> In-Reply-To: <398208s8-6080-r8q7-s6rs-q9np11428n3o@ynat.uz> Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2022 15:13:16 -0400 Message-ID: <12bfd01d8e001$03cf0e40$0b6d2ac0$@evslin.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQFhvA1NLWL6o0iPizFg3KYUu+2AlAGJY/h/AdWIkAQDVlb0TwHHSyMTAmsOdz4BSbKxVq6a/cQA Content-Language: en-us X-Classification-ID: 8ccfd019-f75f-4bd6-b3bb-9ad8bf74eda1-1-1 Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink no longer available to the Ukrainian army? X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2022 19:13:17 -0000 Putting aside the timing of Elon's complaint about cost right after the = spat over his Ukrainian "peace plan", It is certainly reasonable for = Starlink to get paid like other weapon suppliers who didn't give out = free samples to prove their usefulness, Given that they should be = reimbursed based on loaded cost plus profit like anyone else. I'm sure = the other suppliers allocate their overhead costs when pricing weapon = systems. They'd be out of business otherwise. The satellites are part of = Starlink's fixed overhead so a portion of their costs should be = allocated to service provided in Ukraine. All that being said, it would be terrible if Ukraine got less than the = best support that can be provided. -----Original Message----- From: Starlink On Behalf Of = David Lang via Starlink Sent: Friday, October 14, 2022 1:28 PM To: Kurtis Heimerl Cc: Starlink list Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink no longer available to the Ukrainian = army? Having now read more info on this, less significant than the $80m total = figure is the $20m/month figure he quoted. With 15k dishes as the figure = that they sent (separate from whatever has been purchased on the = commercial side), that works out to 1.3k/dish/month, which is very high. now, not being able to deploy reliable ground stations inside Ukraine = could be driving up costs, plus the ongoing battle against jamming. But = in his tweet he also cites satellite costs, which should not be = allocated as "Ukraine related"=20 costs (and I don't think the cyberdefense and jamming defense work = should be either) David Lang On Fri, 14 Oct 2022, Kurtis Heimerl via Starlink wrote: > This thread (https://twitter.com/dim0kq/status/1580827171903635456) > strongly argues that Starlink is largely paid for their service, at=20 > least on the consumer side. I imagine there are significant=20 > operational expenses in dealing with the various actors involved but=20 > not on the basic model. > > On Fri, Oct 14, 2022 at 9:06 AM Juliusz Chroboczek via Starlink=20 > wrote: >> >> > In essence, once you give something away for free, not even setting = >> > the expectation that it=E2=80=99s a =E2=80=9Cfreemium=E2=80=9D = model, it=E2=80=99s very hard to get=20 >> > out of it. If you then claim your costs are way higher than what=20 >> > analysis work out, eyebrows raise way above the hairline. >> >> Uh. Hmm. >> _______________________________________________ >> Starlink mailing list >> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink