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Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2022 10:29:27 -0000 --------------SirDuEr00eGRYl9pSrYbHwZ9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mr Musk reminds me of a salesperson I once worked with, who first sold hims= elf on all the impossible things GCOS could do better that OS/360, and then= set out to convince customers. The occasional customer would ask if he wa= s barking mad (;-)) Others merely assumed we just hired liars as salesmen. --dave On 8/30/22 20:32, David P. Reed via Starlink wrote: Then Elon Musk is making proposals in bad faith, because he is leading peop= le to believe that his system can do stuff it clearly cannot do. Which they proved when they failed to meet the requirements of the US rural= service funding program, after claiming they could. On Tuesday, August 30, 2022 8:12pm, "David Lang" said: > I have no problems with people making technical arguments saying that the= re are > limitations on the service that Starlink can provide (I may argue technic= al > specifics or point out things I think you miss, but I won't claim that yo= u are > arguing in bad faith), but when someone then goes beyond that and says th= at what > it can provide is a level that's unacceptable to Americans or dismissing = it > because fiber is better, then I'll respond and say that the person is arg= uing in > bad faith. > > David Lang > > > On Tue, 30 Aug 2022, David P. Reed wrote: > > > Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2022 19:28:56 -0400 (EDT) > > From: David P. Reed > > To: Brandon Butterworth > > Cc: David Lang , Brandon Butterwor= th > , > > starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > > Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink "beam spread" > > > > > > I wasn't starting a discussion about Starlink the business. I was talki= ng > about Starlink the technology and the "dreams" that people project onto t= hat > technology. > > > > I'm happy if the current customers are happy and remain happy. Just poi= nting > out that there are pretty severe limitations in the physical capabilities= of the > technology of the satellites and dishys that will limit how many customer= s can be > served in an area. > > > > I was reacting to the idea Dave Taht brought up that somehow the satell= ites > can cover "more" area per satellite, if they go to a lower total bit rate= (175 vs. > 240 per antenna on each satellite). > > > > I'm a radio engineer, trained in stuff like phased array antenna design= s, and > power, etc. I'm also a communications protocol engineer, trained in multi= plexing > techniques. > > > > I'm not saying Starlink engineers are incompetent, but I am saying that= what > Musk (who despite the fact that he pretends to be an engineer is not one,= never > has been one) has described in his visionary speeches is not what Starlin= k is > delivering today, and that's because it basically can't be delivered. > _______________________________________________ Starlink mailing list Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink -- David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest dave.collier-brown@indexexchange.com | -- Mark Twain CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE AND DISCLAIMER : This telecommunication, including a= ny and all attachments, contains confidential information intended only for= the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any dissemination, distribution, co= pying or disclosure is strictly prohibited and is not a waiver of confident= iality. If you have received this telecommunication in error, please notify= the sender immediately by return electronic mail and delete the message fr= om your inbox and deleted items folders. This telecommunication does not co= nstitute an express or implied agreement to conduct transactions by electro= nic means, nor does it constitute a contract offer, a contract amendment or= an acceptance of a contract offer. Contract terms contained in this teleco= mmunication are subject to legal review and the completion of formal docume= ntation and are not binding until same is confirmed in writing and has been= signed by an authorized signatory. --------------SirDuEr00eGRYl9pSrYbHwZ9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Mr Musk reminds me of a salesperson I once worked with, who first sold h= imself on all the impossible things GCOS could do better that OS/360, and t= hen set out to convince customers.  The occasional customer would ask = if he was barking mad (;-)) Others merely assumed we just hired liars as sales= men.

--dave

On 8/30/22 20:32, David P. Reed via Starlink= wrote:

Then Elon Musk is making proposals in bad faith, because he is leading peop= le to believe that his system can do stuff it clearly cannot do.

 

Which they proved when they failed to meet the requirements of the US rural= service funding program, after claiming they could.

 

On Tuesday, August 30, 2022 8:12pm, "David Lang" <david@lang.hm> said:

> I have no problems with people making technical arguments saying that = there are
> limitations on the service that Starlink can provide (I may argue tech= nical
> specifics or point out things I think you miss, but I won't claim that= you are
> arguing in bad faith), but when someone then goes beyond that and says= that what
> it can provide is a level that's unacceptable to Americans or dismissi= ng it
> because fiber is better, then I'll respond and say that the person is = arguing in
> bad faith.
>
> David Lang
>
>
> On Tue, 30 Aug 2022, David P. Reed wrote:
>
> > Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2022 19:28:56 -0400 (EDT)
> > From: David P. Reed <dpreed@deepplum.com>
> > To: Brandon Butterworth <brandon@rd.bbc.co.uk>
> > Cc: David Lang <david@lang.hm>, Brandon Butterworth
> <brandon@rd.bbc.co.uk>,
> > starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> > Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink "beam spread"
> >
> >
> > I wasn't starting a discussion about Starlink the business. I was= talking
> about Starlink the technology and the "dreams" that people p= roject onto that
> technology.
> >
> > I'm happy if the current customers are happy and remain happy. Ju= st pointing
> out that there are pretty severe limitations in the physical capabilit= ies of the
> technology of the satellites and dishys that will limit how many custo= mers can be
> served in an area.
> >
> > I was reacting to the idea Dave Taht brought up that somehow the = satellites
> can cover "more" area per satellite, if they go to a lower t= otal bit rate (175 vs.
> 240 per antenna on each satellite).
> >
> > I'm a radio engineer, trained in stuff like phased array antenna = designs, and
> power, etc. I'm also a communications protocol engineer, trained in mu= ltiplexing
> techniques.
> >
> > I'm not saying Starlink engineers are incompetent, but I am sayin= g that what
> Musk (who despite the fact that he pretends to be an engineer is not o= ne, never
> has been one) has described in his visionary speeches is not what Star= link is
> delivering today, and that's because it basically can't be delivered.<= br> > 


____________________________________=
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--=20
David Collier-Brown,         | Always do right. This will gratify
System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest
dave.collier-brown@indexexchange.com |              -- =
Mark Twain

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE AND D= ISCLAIMER : T= his telecommunication, including any and all attachments, contains confiden= tial information intended only for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any dissemination, distribution, copying or discl= osure is strictly prohibited and is not a waiver of confidentiality. If you= have received this telecommunication in error, please notify the sender im= mediately by return electronic mail and delete the message from your inbox and deleted items folders. This tel= ecommunication does not constitute an express or implied agreement to condu= ct transactions by electronic means, nor does it constitute a contract offe= r, a contract amendment or an acceptance of a contract offer. Contract terms contained in this telecommunication ar= e subject to legal review and the completion of formal documentation and ar= e not binding until same is confirmed in writing and has been signed by an = authorized signatory.

--------------SirDuEr00eGRYl9pSrYbHwZ9--