Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad.
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Michael Richardson <mcr@sandelman.ca>
To: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
Subject: [Starlink] Re: Starlink Digest, Vol 53, Issue 14
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2025 18:58:06 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <13855.1759100286@obiwan.sandelman.ca> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <175909781525.1555.5289631280302402077@gauss>


David Fernández via Starlink wrote:
    > I understand that SCONE info about maximum possible bandwidth (bottleneck
    > maximum possible bandwidth, not zero, of course) available on the path
    > between a QUIC client and server is not to define a steady state (although
    > it could be), but may be better used to set the size of the initial burst
    > of packets after a connection is established, during the slow start phase,
    > to a value that can be more optimal than just a fixed value like 10 (RFC
    > 6928), which was updated as networks became faster (with more
    > capacity).

No, that's not the goal as I understand it.
It's to tell the client that asking for 4K video is not going to work.
Yes, it might be able to get an initial few seconds of 4K, but then the burst
tolerances (token buckets, etc.) of the network will be exhausted, and the 4K
will begin to fail.
The video will then pause/skip/.. and the client will go back to 2K.
Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

    > The advantage of QUIC vs. TCP for web browsing should be an increased
    > interactivity, less RTTs to do connections, more responsiveness of sites,
    > less lag and latency, although it seems people is not really noticing the
    > difference after sites start using HTTP/3 vs. HTTP/2.

Probably the most important thing is that it gets rid of head of queue blocking.

    > For example, today, the following site was reported as recently starting
    > using HTTP/3:
    > Pokemon.com (https://w3techs.com/sites/info/pokemon.com)

    > If anybody made a survey to usual Pokemon site visitors, I wonder if they
    > noticed that change.

When I think about QUIC, I think about PsyDuck for some reason.
When I think about TCP, I think about JigglyPuff.
Or maybe Kirby (not a pokemon).
And, when I think about UUCP, I think about Thomas the Tank Engine.
Yes, I was a parent over the last 20 years.

--
]               Never tell me the odds!                 | ipv6 mesh networks [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works        |    IoT architect   [
]     mcr@sandelman.ca  http://www.sandelman.ca/        |   ruby on rails    [

       reply	other threads:[~2025-09-28 22:58 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 8+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <175909781525.1555.5289631280302402077@gauss>
2025-09-28 22:58 ` Michael Richardson [this message]
     [not found] <175909842257.1555.851927488987629950@gauss>
2025-09-28 22:58 ` Michael Richardson
     [not found] <175900400148.1561.6981645218542924150@gauss>
2025-09-28 17:32 ` David Fernández
2025-09-28 18:51   ` Sebastian Moeller
     [not found]     ` <6653.1759098417@obiwan.sandelman.ca>
2025-09-29  5:54       ` Sebastian Moeller
     [not found] <175895289005.1561.17970219906621123011@gauss>
2025-09-27 20:13 ` David P. Reed
2025-09-28 10:47   ` Sebastian Moeller
2025-09-28 10:59     ` David Lang

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

  List information: https://lists.bufferbloat.net/postorius/lists/starlink.lists.bufferbloat.net/

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=13855.1759100286@obiwan.sandelman.ca \
    --to=mcr@sandelman.ca \
    --cc=starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox