From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 867D13B29E for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2023 10:18:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 724D63898C; Thu, 20 Apr 2023 10:35:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id xMLxp-fWxU4F; Thu, 20 Apr 2023 10:35:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (unknown [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2:40a:34ff:fe10:f571]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id D10913898B; Thu, 20 Apr 2023 10:35:32 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sandelman.ca; s=mail; t=1682001332; bh=UdlOtWOGC97IcT9tiT4kDPqLbQHC4td5TdGkGTGk3b8=; h=From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=mulMnpXPVri3RYoJbokUuTpMllIXXsjcF8sUZAaqfHpp+g3M0A3U7G+GTqDD0VDbC 3qHkj3eEnYkdkGCYr4+GG4mI2zso/dUO70LoJn5FvBQ2QCRVPqdG+jvALVLrqv6LZD OliwP32Jg2fN/J7ZREOTA++mtpL6fFZfBnO1ZsNF+6b5gQkcZ0hT6BTraiAhxevdp+ ElZ1NtQWu/8zvNGFEuqXu1nIyQREU4B4RFA1XWoT74q+RTHDXTi+MX11l97SzpnoDs WdFpcbdoQjJLaeGhVNVJb/xe/aIqviONyuWc8zlZZWoH335oKjk+CQbs7tpisj/W0a +PcE+oCwJnLmg== Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69B071DC; Thu, 20 Apr 2023 10:18:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Daniel Schien cc: Vint Cerf , "tom@evslin.com" , starlink , "e-impact@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: References: <1272.1681406523@localhost> <8151.1681416108@localhost> <24341.1681947286@localhost> <4f0fa01d97325$3f72e9a0$be58bce0$@evslin.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 27.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Subject: Re: [Starlink] [E-impact] DataCenters in Space (was Re: fiber IXPs in space) X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2023 14:18:02 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Daniel Schien wrote: > I assume any object in orbit will be hidden from the sun some of the > time. So, the machines will require some pretty big battery to go up > with them. Why would we do that? Make the orbits polar/sun-synchronous. While GEO is pretty busy, I wonder if there are other interesting orbits. Obviously, Lagrange points are one set, but are there half-GEO or 2xGEO orbits that are somehow useful? One point I got from Geoff Houston's talk on PING which I didn't understand clearly before was that LEO wasn't just close to use, but that it was much better protected from radiation. > "Data centers are big energy consumers =E2=80=93 between 2% and 3% of= all > global consumption =E2=80=93 a rate that is doubling every year." Back in 2000 the coal industry did a "study" that explained how coal was critical to Internet growth. Their modelling assumed every home router used the same power as a Cisco 7000 series 14U router. > The latest was IEA estimating it to be around 220-320 TWh (out of > 30,000) in 2021 data and growing between 10-60% over 6 years in total > (so let's than 10 CAGR). But it's certainly not doubling every > year. That's just completely wrong. +1 A related number is density: what's the power required/gigaflop? And when will countries start rating themselves by gigaflops rather than to= ns of steel or barrels of oil? {You down the street from Bistol Aerospace?} =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQFKBAEBCgA0FiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAmRBSZgWHG1jcitpZXRm QHNhbmRlbG1hbi5jYQAKCRCAi3D73dDdZSoaCACg1kGzpOt6jbzirII8aP+V/7hX L8c0PahUw3MQp1gg5Jir63blux133ehpqCXjLnQL1OKCmB3Cbl5k1FjqZFXPfurx 0sCRsvVKzw4YmHCxQri6PgQ+aiXScHoW9qokw/f9fqWcHE4JHKiXDJ/yzIwIkXd3 MypFxT5d0jz0zQPAvZRNFMbFilGH3LZy1pXmiP2BKEL6xxO4fNjO7Prf8IMrOsHl 5cPcLi+v/yHziyiu/XDQqVrvS5ScGgbTr+310WtXVjB9rqlawLRby5OvJBJG3l7a V+s/+CdSc6hjyo+F2SDgzmIYGjIiDEHWcTEliIZ36sjPjCqJ1SbmfVN1asgr =J92k -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--