Re: [Starlink] [Rpm] the grinch meets cloudflare's christmas present

["Dick Roy" <dickroy@alum.mit.edu>]

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From: Starlink [mailto:starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net] On Behalf Of
Dave Collier-Brown via Starlink
Sent: Wednesday, January 4, 2023 6:48 PM
To: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
Subject: Re: [Starlink] [Rpm] the grinch meets cloudflare's christmas
present

 

I think using "speed" for "the inverse of delay" is pretty normal English,
if technically erroneous when speaking nerd or physicist.

[RR] I’ve not heard of that usage before.  The units aren’t commensurate
either. 

Using it for volume? Arguably more like fraudulent...

[RR] I don’t think that was Bob’s intent.  I think “load volume” was meant
to be a metaphor for “number of bits/bytes” being transported (“by the
semi”).  

That said, aren’t users these days educated on “gigs” which they intuitively
understand to be Gigabits per second (or Gbps)?  Oddly enough, that is an
expression of “data/information/communication rate” in the appropriate units
with the nominal technically correct meaning.  

RR

--dave

On 1/4/23 18:54, Bruce Perens via Starlink wrote:

On the other hand, we would like to be comprehensible to normal users,
especially when we want them to press their providers to deal with
bufferbloat. Differences like speed and rate would go right over their
heads.

 

On Wed, Jan 4, 2023 at 1:16 PM Ulrich Speidel via Starlink
<starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:

The use of the term "speed" in communications used to be restricted to the
speed of light (or whatever propagation speed one happened to be dealing
with. Everything else was a "rate". Maybe I'm old-fashioned but I think
talking about "speed tests" muddies the waters rather a lot.

 

-- 
**************************************************************** 
Dr. Ulrich Speidel 

Department of Computer Science 

Room 303S.594
Ph: (+64-9)-373-7599 ext. 85282 

The University of Auckland 
u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz
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From: Starlink <starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net> on behalf of
rjmcmahon via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Sent: Thursday, January 5, 2023 9:02 AM
To: jf@jonathanfoulkes.com <jf@jonathanfoulkes.com>
Cc: Cake List <cake@lists.bufferbloat.net>; IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>;
libreqos <libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net>; Dave Taht via Starlink
<starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>; Rpm <rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net>; bloat
<bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Subject: Re: [Starlink] [Rpm] the grinch meets cloudflare's christmas
present 

 

Curious to why people keep calling capacity tests speed tests? A semi at 
55 mph isn't faster than a porsche at 141 mph because its load volume is 
larger.

Bob
> HNY Dave and all the rest,
> 
> Great to see yet another capacity test add latency metrics to the
> results. This one looks like a good start.
> 
> Results from my Windstream DOCSIS 3.1 line (3.1 on download only, up
> is 3.0) Gigabit down / 35Mbps up provisioning. Using an IQrouter Pro
> (an i5 x86) with Cake set for 710/31 as this ISP can’t deliver
> reliable low-latency unless you shave a good bit off the targets. My
> local loop is pretty congested.
> 
> Here’s the latest Cloudflare test:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And an Ookla test run just afterward:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are definitely both in the ballpark and correspond to other tests
> run from the router itself or my (wired) MacBook Pro.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Jonathan
> 
> 
>> On Jan 4, 2023, at 12:26 PM, Dave Taht via Rpm 
>> <rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Please try the new, the shiny, the really wonderful test here:
>> https://speed.cloudflare.com/ <https://speed.cloudflare.com> 
>> 
>> I would really appreciate some independent verification of
>> measurements using this tool. In my brief experiments it appears - as
>> all the commercial tools to date - to dramatically understate the
>> bufferbloat, on my LTE, (and my starlink terminal is out being
>> hacked^H^H^H^H^H^Hworked on, so I can't measure that)
>> 
>> My test of their test reports 223ms 5G latency under load , where
>> flent reports over 2seconds. See comparison attached.
>> 
>> My guess is that this otherwise lovely new tool, like too many,
>> doesn't run for long enough. Admittedly, most web objects (their
>> target market) are small, and so long as they remain small and not
>> heavily pipelined this test is a very good start... but I'm pretty
>> sure cloudflare is used for bigger uploads and downloads than that.
>> There's no way to change the test to run longer either.
>> 
>> I'd love to get some results from other networks (compared as usual to
>> flent), especially ones with cake on it. I'd love to know if they
>> measured more minimum rtts that can be obtained with fq_codel or cake,
>> correctly.
>> 
>> Love Always,
>> The Grinch
>> 
>> --
>> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work:
>>
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-698136666560
7352320-FXtz
>> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
>>
<image.png><tcp_nup-2023-01-04T090937.211620.LTE.flent.gz>__________________
_____________________________
>> Rpm mailing list
>> Rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/rpm
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Rpm mailing list
> Rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/rpm
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Bruce Perens K6BP






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-- 
David Collier-Brown,         | Always do right. This will gratify
System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest
dave.collier-brown@indexexchange.com |              -- Mark Twain

 

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