From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp99.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (smtp99.iad3a.emailsrvr.com [173.203.187.99]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E28CE3B29E for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 13:30:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from app11.wa-webapps.iad3a (relay-webapps.rsapps.net [172.27.255.140]) by smtp21.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 6FEE22520B for ; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 13:30:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from deepplum.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by app11.wa-webapps.iad3a (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CEE8A1A19; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 13:30:26 -0500 (EST) Received: by apps.rackspace.com (Authenticated sender: dpreed@deepplum.com, from: dpreed@deepplum.com) with HTTP; Thu, 11 Nov 2021 13:30:26 -0500 (EST) X-Auth-ID: dpreed@deepplum.com Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 13:30:26 -0500 (EST) From: "David P. Reed" To: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net Cc: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_20211111133026000000_33267" Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Type: html In-Reply-To: References: X-Client-IP: 209.6.168.128 Message-ID: <1636655426.376728690@apps.rackspace.com> X-Mailer: webmail/19.0.13-RC X-Classification-ID: ef8aa432-cccd-43f1-b419-6da3e4d762ce-1-1 Subject: Re: [Starlink] something of a step backwards X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2021 18:30:27 -0000 ------=_20211111133026000000_33267 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0AI don't think StarLink will be an Internet Access Provider if it include= s a bundled router that is sealed off with proprietary (even DMCA and FCC c= ertification protection from modification).=0A =0AI can see them taking con= trol as folks like Comcast have tried to do - for example:=0A =0AThey may s= tart MITM's https connections to read traffic and gather surveillance data = on users' DNS and HTTP uses.=0A =0AThey may start blocking bittorrent becau= se they claim it's all "piracy" and theft.=0A =0AThey may start charging di= fferentially based on the type or endpoints of traffic.=0A =0AThey may star= t blocking countries' access geographically to other countries over Starlin= k.=0A =0AThis always comes with some argument that "bundling" a provider-co= ntrolled service will reduce "consumer price" (of course, monopolies rarely= pass cost on in the form of minimized price, in reality, but when they tal= k to regulators, they lie and wave their hands about "economics" that confl= ates cost with price).=0A =0ABut those who are fans of satellites and love = Elon Musk to death because he's a "hero" will not worry about these things,= even though in the past that is exactly what has happened.=0A =0ASo, you'l= l buy into what you buy into. Just don't say I didn't tell you this will ha= ppen.=0A ------=_20211111133026000000_33267 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I don't think StarLink= will be an Internet Access Provider if it includes a bundled router that i= s sealed off with proprietary (even DMCA and FCC certification protection f= rom modification).

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I can see them taking control as folks like Comcast have tried to do -= for example:

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= They may start MITM's https connections to read traffic and gather surveill= ance data on users' DNS and HTTP uses.

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They may start blocking bittorrent because they cl= aim it's all "piracy" and theft.

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=0AThey may start charging differentially based on the type= or endpoints of traffic.

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They may start blocking countries' access geographically to ot= her countries over Starlink.

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This always comes with some argument that "bundling" a provi= der-controlled service will reduce "consumer price" (of course, monopolies = rarely pass cost on in the form of minimized price, in reality, but when th= ey talk to regulators, they lie and wave their hands about "economics" that= conflates cost with price).

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But those who are fans of satellites and love Elon Musk to d= eath because he's a "hero" will not worry about these things, even though i= n the past that is exactly what has happened.

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&n= bsp;

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So, you'll buy into what you buy into. Just= don't say I didn't tell you this will happen.

=0A

&= nbsp;

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