From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp93.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (smtp93.iad3a.emailsrvr.com [173.203.187.93]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DFBE93B2A4 for ; Thu, 3 Mar 2022 18:47:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from app39.wa-webapps.iad3a (relay-webapps.rsapps.net [172.27.255.140]) by smtp12.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 31D4B235C1 for ; Thu, 3 Mar 2022 18:47:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from deepplum.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by app39.wa-webapps.iad3a (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E95721999; Thu, 3 Mar 2022 18:47:22 -0500 (EST) Received: by apps.rackspace.com (Authenticated sender: dpreed@deepplum.com, from: dpreed@deepplum.com) with HTTP; Thu, 3 Mar 2022 18:47:22 -0500 (EST) X-Auth-ID: dpreed@deepplum.com Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2022 18:47:22 -0500 (EST) From: "David P. Reed" To: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net Cc: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_20220303184722000000_47185" Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Type: html In-Reply-To: References: X-Client-IP: 209.6.168.128 Message-ID: <1646351242.121623495@apps.rackspace.com> X-Mailer: webmail/19.0.13-RC X-Classification-ID: 2a90b7e9-ff0c-4f70-9e6c-e1dc655ee8d3-1-1 Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink Digest, Vol 12, Issue 6 X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2022 23:47:23 -0000 ------=_20220303184722000000_47185 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0AI'm really appreciating all the analysis of Starlink in Ukraine context = here.=0A =0AHowever, it's a lot distressing that the focus is on "military = operations" context.=0AIt seems like most of the commentators want to be ar= mchair military commanders in a situation where the last thing any Ukrainia= n needs is more attacks and bloodshed (no matter how precision-guided).=0A = =0AAre we helping Elon Musk become an international arms dealer? Is that wh= at he wants?=0A =0ASo how is Starlink helping get aid to the vast majority = (of any political persuasion) who just want to survive and don't really wan= t to incinerate ANYONE with a Molotov cocktail?=0A =0ASurely there are appl= ications of Starlink and Internet to peace other than the US's favorite man= tra (if you remember) "Kill for Peace, Kill, Kill, Kill for Peace" =0A =0AT= his also strikes me about the ideas aimed at punishing Russia by disconnect= ing if from the Internet at the borders and denying the people living there= from accessing PayPal, etc.=0A =0A =0AOn Thursday, March 3, 2022 5:01pm, s= tarlink-request@lists.bufferbloat.net said:=0A=0A=0A=0A> Send Starlink mail= ing list submissions to=0A> starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net=0A> =0A> To subs= cribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit=0A> https://lists.buffer= bloat.net/listinfo/starlink=0A> or, via email, send a message with subject = or body 'help' to=0A> starlink-request@lists.bufferbloat.net=0A> =0A> You c= an reach the person managing the list at=0A> starlink-owner@lists.bufferblo= at.net=0A> =0A> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more = specific=0A> than "Re: Contents of Starlink digest..."=0A> =0A> =0A> Today'= s Topics:=0A> =0A> 1. Re: recent starlink rrul test result (tom@evslin.com)= =0A> 2. Re: recent starlink rrul test result (David Lang)=0A> 3. Re: recent= starlink rrul test result (David Lang)=0A> 4. Re: spacex & ukraine (Larry = Press)=0A> =0A> =0A> ------------------------------------------------------= ----------------=0A> =0A> Message: 1=0A> Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:42:54 -05= 00=0A> From: =0A> To: "'Nathan Owens'" , = "'David Lang'"=0A> =0A> Cc: = =0A> Subject: Re: [Starlink] recent starlink rrul test result=0A> Message-I= D: <23e201d82f26$1d938720$58ba9560$@evslin.com>=0A> Content-Type: text/plai= n; charset=3D"utf-8"=0A> =0A> I=E2=80=99ve also stayed with my Starlink con= nection for teleconferencing altho we=0A> now have fiber available. My conn= ection is not usually the worst on the call but=0A> not perfect either. If = I were a job seeker or being paid to present AND I had a=0A> choice, I woul= dn=E2=80=99t use Starlink when critical=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> From: Starlink <= starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net> On Behalf Of Nathan=0A> Owens=0A> S= ent: Thursday, March 3, 2022 12:16 PM=0A> To: David Lang =0A= > Cc: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net=0A> Subject: Re: [Starlink] recent sta= rlink rrul test result=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> Same here, Google Meet / Zoom / T= eams / FaceTime are great.=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> Dave, can you post the comman= ds to run those flent measurements? I also finally=0A> recreated that irtt-= based scatterplot, attached.=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 7:15= AM David Lang > wrote:=0A> =0A> = That said, I've been using starlink for work zoom calls for a while with no= =0A> significant issues (nothing I can pin on my side vs the other particip= ants)=0A> =0A> David Lang=0A> =0A> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022, Dave Taht wrote:=0A>= =0A> > wildly variable bandwidth, adjusted at 15 sec intervals, induced=0A= > > latencies of 400ms, really terrible upload throughput relative to=0A> >= down.=0A> >=0A> > H/T David Lang for this data.=0A> >=0A> > On Thu, Mar 3,= 2022 at 9:31 AM Livingood, Jason=0A> > =0A> > wrote:=0A> >>=0A> >> When folks experi= ence sub-par video conferencing over Starlink, it'd be=0A> great to see wor= king latency stats at that time - such as via the easy test at=0A> https://= www.waveform.com/tools/bufferbloat.=0A> >>=0A> >> On 2/23/22, 09:38, "Starl= ink on behalf of Dave Taht"=0A> = on behalf of=0A> dave.taht= @gmail.com > wrote:=0A> >>=0A> >> =0A> https:/= /urldefense.com/v3/__https://blog.tomevslin.com/2022/02/starlinks-zoomready= -rating-is-going-down.html__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjV= e0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj8WTA26WA$=0A> =0A> >>=0A> >> --=0A> >> I tried to build a better future, a = few times:=0A> >> =0A> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://wayforward.archi= ve.org/?site=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fwww.icei.org__;JSUl!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt= 9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj-yqmwsLA$=0A> =0A> >>=0A> >> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC=0A> = >> _______________________________________________=0A> >> Starlink mailing = list=0A> >> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net=0A> =0A> >> =0A> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.bufferblo= at.net/listinfo/starlink__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0= TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj_SP7yVhg$=0A> =0A> >>=0A> >=0A> >= =0A> >_______________________________________________=0A> Starlink mailing = list=0A> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net =0A> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink=0A> =0A> ---------= ----- next part --------------=0A> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...=0A> U= RL:=0A> =0A> =0A> ------------------------------= =0A> =0A> Message: 2=0A> Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:36:42 -0800 (PST)=0A> Fro= m: David Lang =0A> To: Nathan Owens =0A> C= c: David Lang , Dave Taht ,=0A> "starli= nk@lists.bufferbloat.net" =0A> Subject: Re:= [Starlink] recent starlink rrul test result=0A> Message-ID: <87o7734r-5ns1= -q734-0qr-q0o06sp72s46@ynat.uz>=0A> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"ut= f-8"; Format=3D"flowed"=0A> =0A> flent -l 300 --step-size=3D.05 --socket-st= ats -H fremont.starlink.taht.net=0A> --te=3Dupload_streams=3D1 -t dlangs-di= shy tcp_nup=0A> =0A> flent -l 300 --step-size=3D.05 --socket-stats -H fremo= nt.starlink.taht.net=0A> --te=3Ddownload_streams=3D1 -t dlangs-dishy tcp_nd= own=0A> =0A> flent -l 300 --step-size=3D.05 --socket-stats -H fremont.starl= ink.taht.net=0A> --te=3Dupload_streams=3D8 -t dlangs-dishy-8 tcp_nup=0A> = =0A> flent -l 300 --step-size=3D.05 --socket-stats -H fremont.starlink.taht= .net=0A> --te=3Ddownload_streams=3D8 -t dlangs-dishy-8 tcp_ndown=0A> =0A> f= lent -l 300 --step-size=3D.05 --socket-stats -H fremont.starlink.taht.net -= t=0A> dlangs-dishy rrul_be=0A> =0A> =0A> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022, Nathan Owens w= rote:=0A> =0A> > Same here, Google Meet / Zoom / Teams / FaceTime are great= .=0A> >=0A> > Dave, can you post the commands to run those flent measuremen= ts? I also=0A> > finally recreated that irtt-based scatterplot, attached.= =0A> >=0A> > On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 7:15 AM David Lang wrot= e:=0A> >=0A> >> That said, I've been using starlink for work zoom calls for= a while with=0A> >> no=0A> >> significant issues (nothing I can pin on my = side vs the other=0A> participants)=0A> >>=0A> >> David Lang=0A> >>=0A> >> = On Thu, 3 Mar 2022, Dave Taht wrote:=0A> >>=0A> >>> wildly variable bandwid= th, adjusted at 15 sec intervals, induced=0A> >>> latencies of 400ms, reall= y terrible upload throughput relative to=0A> >>> down.=0A> >>>=0A> >>> H/T = David Lang for this data.=0A> >>>=0A> >>> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 9:31 AM Li= vingood, Jason=0A> >>> wrote:=0A> >>>>=0A> >>= >> When folks experience sub-par video conferencing over Starlink,=0A> it'd= be=0A> >> great to see working latency stats at that time - such as via th= e easy=0A> test=0A> >> at https://www.waveform.com/tools/bufferbloat.=0A> >= >>>=0A> >>>> On 2/23/22, 09:38, "Starlink on behalf of Dave Taht" <=0A> >> = starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net on behalf of=0A> dave.taht@gmail.com= >=0A> >> wrote:=0A> >>>>=0A> >>>>=0A> >>=0A> https://urldefense.com/v3/__ht= tps://blog.tomevslin.com/2022/02/starlinks-zoomready-rating-is-going-down.h= tml__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5C= xlN2sj8WTA26WA$=0A> >>>>=0A> >>>> --=0A> >>>> I tried to build a better fut= ure, a few times:=0A> >>>>=0A> >>=0A> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://w= ayforward.archive.org/?site=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fwww.icei.org__;JSUl!!CQl3mcHX2A= !TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj-yqmwsLA$=0A= > >>>>=0A> >>>> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC=0A> >>>> ________________= _______________________________=0A> >>>> Starlink mailing list=0A> >>>> Sta= rlink@lists.bufferbloat.net=0A> >>>>=0A> >>=0A> https://urldefense.com/v3/_= _https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2= gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj_SP7yVhg$=0A> >>>>=0A> >= >>=0A> >>>=0A> >>> _______________________________________________=0A> >> S= tarlink mailing list=0A> >> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net=0A> >> https://l= ists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink=0A> >>=0A> >=0A> =0A> --------------= ----------------=0A> =0A> Message: 3=0A> Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:37:25 -08= 00 (PST)=0A> From: David Lang =0A> To: David Lang =0A> Cc: Nathan Owens , Dave Taht ,=0A> "starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net" = =0A> Subject: Re: [Starlink] recent starlink rrul test result=0A> Message-I= D: =0A> Content-Type: text/pl= ain; charset=3D"utf-8"; Format=3D"flowed"=0A> =0A> and the irtt=0A> =0A> ir= tt client --dscp=3D0xfe -i3ms -d20m fremont.starlink.taht.net=0A> =0A> On T= hu, 3 Mar 2022, David Lang wrote:=0A> =0A> > flent -l 300 --step-size=3D.05= --socket-stats -H fremont.starlink.taht.net=0A> > --te=3Dupload_streams=3D= 1 -t dlangs-dishy tcp_nup=0A> >=0A> > flent -l 300 --step-size=3D.05 --sock= et-stats -H fremont.starlink.taht.net=0A> > --te=3Ddownload_streams=3D1 -t = dlangs-dishy tcp_ndown=0A> >=0A> > flent -l 300 --step-size=3D.05 --socket-= stats -H fremont.starlink.taht.net=0A> > --te=3Dupload_streams=3D8 -t dlang= s-dishy-8 tcp_nup=0A> >=0A> > flent -l 300 --step-size=3D.05 --socket-stats= -H fremont.starlink.taht.net=0A> > --te=3Ddownload_streams=3D8 -t dlangs-d= ishy-8 tcp_ndown=0A> >=0A> > flent -l 300 --step-size=3D.05 --socket-stats = -H fremont.starlink.taht.net -t=0A> > dlangs-dishy rrul_be=0A> >=0A> >=0A> = > On Thu, 3 Mar 2022, Nathan Owens wrote:=0A> >=0A> >> Same here, Google Me= et / Zoom / Teams / FaceTime are great.=0A> >>=0A> >> Dave, can you post th= e commands to run those flent measurements? I also=0A> >> finally recreated= that irtt-based scatterplot, attached.=0A> >>=0A> >> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 a= t 7:15 AM David Lang wrote:=0A> >>=0A> >>> That said, I've = been using starlink for work zoom calls for a while=0A> with=0A> >>> no=0A>= >>> significant issues (nothing I can pin on my side vs the other=0A> >>> = participants)=0A> >>>=0A> >>> David Lang=0A> >>>=0A> >>> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022= , Dave Taht wrote:=0A> >>>=0A> >>>> wildly variable bandwidth, adjusted at = 15 sec intervals, induced=0A> >>>> latencies of 400ms, really terrible uplo= ad throughput relative to=0A> >>>> down.=0A> >>>>=0A> >>>> H/T David Lang f= or this data.=0A> >>>>=0A> >>>> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 9:31 AM Livingood, J= ason=0A> >>>> wrote:=0A> >>>>>=0A> >>>>> When= folks experience sub-par video conferencing over=0A> Starlink, it'd be=0A>= >>> great to see working latency stats at that time - such as via the=0A> = easy=0A> >>> test=0A> >>> at https://www.waveform.com/tools/bufferbloat.=0A= > >>>>>=0A> >>>>> On 2/23/22, 09:38, "Starlink on behalf of Dave Taht"=0A> = <=0A> >>> starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net on behalf of=0A> dave.taht= @gmail.com>=0A> >>> wrote:=0A> >>>>>=0A> >>>>>=0A> >>>=0A> https://urldefen= se.com/v3/__https://blog.tomevslin.com/2022/02/starlinks-zoomready-rating-i= s-going-down.html__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQ= fDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj8WTA26WA$=0A> >>>>>=0A> >>>>> --=0A> >>>>> I tried to b= uild a better future, a few times:=0A> >>>>>=0A> >>>=0A> https://urldefense= .com/v3/__https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fwww.icei.org= __;JSUl!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5= CxlN2sj-yqmwsLA$=0A> >>>>>=0A> >>>>> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC=0A> = >>>>> _______________________________________________=0A> >>>>> Starlink ma= iling list=0A> >>>>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net=0A> >>>>>=0A> >>>=0A> h= ttps://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink_= _;!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2= sj_SP7yVhg$=0A> >>>>>=0A> >>>>=0A> >>>>=0A> >>>> __________________________= _____________________=0A> >>> Starlink mailing list=0A> >>> Starlink@lists.= bufferbloat.net=0A> >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink=0A>= >>>=0A> >=0A> =0A> ------------------------------=0A> =0A> Message: 4=0A> = Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2022 22:01:36 +0000=0A> From: Larry Press =0A> To: Mike Puchol , Dave Taht ,= =0A> David Lang =0A> Cc: "starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net" =0A> Subject: Re: [Starlink] spacex & ukraine= =0A> Message-ID:=0A> =0A> =0A> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"wi= ndows-1252"=0A> =0A> > The balance, as David mentions, is on the value of t= he target vs. the effort=0A> required to strike.=0A> =0A> The value of allo= wing government and resistance leaders and journalists to=0A> communicate w= ith each other and the outside world seems quite high, making the=0A> termi= nals attractive targets for the Russians.=0A> =0A> The cost of locating and= striking a target also seems high -- Ukraine is large and=0A> the terminal= s are portable. SpaceX is testing roaming without re-registration in=0A> Ca= lifornia/Nevada=0A> (https://circleid.com/posts/20220225-spacex-is-testing-= starlink-roaming). If=0A> SpaceX is listening -- consider enabling roaming = in by the users in Ukraine.=0A> =0A> Larry=0A> =0A> _______________________= _________=0A> From: Starlink on be= half of Mike=0A> Puchol =0A> Sent: Wednesday, March 2, 20= 22 1:06 AM=0A> To: Dave Taht ; David Lang =0A> Cc: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net = =0A> Subject: Re: [Starlink] spacex & ukraine=0A> =0A> Thank you Dave, the = honor is mine to share a mailing list with so many people who=0A> know way = more than I do, about any subject I could point my finger at, so I really= =0A> appreciate it.=0A> =0A> On the subject at hand, ELINT/SIGINT and traff= ic analysis has evolved massively=0A> over the years. In the mid-90s, the C= hechen president was killed by Russia with a=0A> missile strike, based on h= is satcom phone signals, which included decoding the=0A> speech and matchin= g to ensure they were hitting the right target.=0A> =0A> The balance, as Da= vid mentions, is on the value of the target vs. the effort=0A> required to = strike. It is relatively easy to monitor cellular networks, decrypt=0A> the= traffic, and triangulate to almost automatically target & strike. The same= =0A> happens with VSAT, which operates against a fixed satellite, so an air= craft high=0A> enough will be in the path between a large portion of the gr= ound and the=0A> satellite.=0A> =0A> With Starlink, the challenge is two-fo= ld. You must be able to detect & locate the=0A> 4.5=C2=BA wide uplink beam = from a terminal, which constantly moves - this can be=0A> done by measuring= just the RF levels and using an ESA to find the source. You must=0A> also = ensure that the user of the terminal is a target valuable enough to justify= a=0A> strike, which would be a lot harder, as you need to keep a good enou= gh SNR to=0A> demodulate, then you=E2=80=99d need to decrypt. Doing this in= real time on an=0A> airborne platform is quite a challenge.=0A> =0A> Botto= m line: unless Russia goes all-out against anyone using any form of radio= =0A> comms (phones, VSAT, satcom, Starlink, etc.) and they just blindly str= ike any=0A> source of RF, a Starlink user has a good chance to avoid being = targeted by just=0A> using the terminal. Different case is if terminals get= used by the military, and=0A> Russia then assumes Starlink =3D military ta= rget. We=E2=80=99re far from any clear=0A> scenario, so we need to wait & s= ee.=0A> =0A> A couple of weeks ago I sent a Ku band LNB to Oleg, tuned to t= he Starlink uplink=0A> band (12.75 - 14.5 GHz), but it arrived a couple of = days before the invasion=0A> began, so he didn=E2=80=99t get a chance to do= any analysis on the TX side of the=0A> terminal.=0A> =0A> Best,=0A> =0A> M= ike=0A> On Mar 1, 2022, 22:15 +0300, David Lang , wrote:=0A>= a couple thoughts on anti-radiation missiles being fired at starlink dishe= s=0A> =0A> 1. the dishes are fairly low power (100w or less) and rather dir= ectional, so=0A> they aren't great targets.=0A> =0A> 2. dishes cost FAR les= s than the missiles that would be fired at them, and are=0A> being produced= at a much higher rate (although there are probably more missles=0A> in the= Russian inventory than spare dishes in SpaceX inventory)=0A> =0A> directio= n finding teams with boots on the ground could be more of a threat, but=0A>= the higher frequency signals are blocked fairly easily (which is why the d= ishes=0A> need a clear view of the sky). It takes a fair amount of training= to be good at=0A> direction finding on weak and intermittent signals.=0A> = =0A> David Lang=0A> =0A> On Tue, 1 Mar 2022, Dave Taht wrote:=0A> =0A> Date= : Tue, 1 Mar 2022 13:55:47 -0500=0A> From: Dave Taht = =0A> To: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net=0A> Subject: [Starlink] spacex & uk= raine=0A> =0A> It is an ongoing honor to have mike puchol sharing his insig= hts with=0A> us, also, on this list.=0A> =0A> https://spacenews.com/spacex-= heeds-ukraines-starlink-sos/=0A> =0A> --=0A> = I tried to build a better future, a few times:=0A> https://wayforward.archi= ve.org/?site=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.icei.org=0A> =0A> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC=0A> ___________________= ____________________________=0A> Starlink mailing list=0A> Starlink@lists.b= ufferbloat.net=0A> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink=0A> _______________________________________________=0A> Starlin= k mailing list=0A> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net=0A> https://lists.bufferb= loat.net/listinfo/starlink=0A> -------------- next part= --------------=0A> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...=0A> URL:=0A> =0A> =0A> ------------------------------=0A> =0A> Subject: Di= gest Footer=0A> =0A> _______________________________________________=0A> St= arlink mailing list=0A> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net=0A> https://lists.bu= fferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink=0A> =0A> =0A> -----------------------------= -=0A> =0A> End of Starlink Digest, Vol 12, Issue 6=0A> ********************= *******************=0A> ------=_20220303184722000000_47185 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I'm really appreciatin= g all the analysis of Starlink in Ukraine context here.

=0A

 

=0A

However, it's a lot distressing t= hat the focus is on "military operations" context.

=0A

It seems like most of the commentators want to be armchair military comm= anders in a situation where the last thing any Ukrainian needs is more atta= cks and bloodshed (no matter how precision-guided).

=0A

 

=0A

Are we helping Elon Musk become an in= ternational arms dealer? Is that what he wants?

=0A

=  

=0A

So how is Starlink helping get aid to the= vast majority (of any political persuasion) who just want to survive and d= on't really want to incinerate ANYONE with a Molotov cocktail?

=0A

 

=0A

Surely there are applicati= ons of Starlink and Internet to peace other than the US's favorite mantra (= if you remember) "Kill for Peace, Kill, Kill, Kill for Peace" 

=0A<= p style=3D"margin:0;padding:0;font-family: arial; font-size: 10pt; overflow= -wrap: break-word;"> 

=0A

This also strikes me = about the ideas aimed at punishing Russia by disconnecting if from the Inte= rnet at the borders and denying the people living there from accessing PayP= al, etc.

=0A

 

=0A

 = ;

=0A

On Thursday, March 3, 2022 5:01pm, starlink-re= quest@lists.bufferbloat.net said:

=0A
=0A

> Send Starlink mailing list submissio= ns to
> starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>
> To subs= cribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://lists.= bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
> or, via email, send a message w= ith subject or body 'help' to
> starlink-request@lists.bufferbloat.= net
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> starlink-owner@lists.bufferbloat.net
>
> When replyi= ng, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re= : Contents of Starlink digest..."
>
>
> Today's T= opics:
>
> 1. Re: recent starlink rrul test result (tom@ev= slin.com)
> 2. Re: recent starlink rrul test result (David Lang)> 3. Re: recent starlink rrul test result (David Lang)
> 4. R= e: spacex & ukraine (Larry Press)
>
>
> -----= -----------------------------------------------------------------
>=
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:42:54 -0500
= > From: <tom@evslin.com>
> To: "'Nathan Owens'" <nathan= @nathan.io>, "'David Lang'"
> <david@lang.hm>
> Cc= : <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
> Subject: Re: [Starlink] = recent starlink rrul test result
> Message-ID: <23e201d82f26$1d9= 38720$58ba9560$@evslin.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset= =3D"utf-8"
>
> I=E2=80=99ve also stayed with my Starlink c= onnection for teleconferencing altho we
> now have fiber available.= My connection is not usually the worst on the call but
> not perfe= ct either. If I were a job seeker or being paid to present AND I had a
> choice, I wouldn=E2=80=99t use Starlink when critical
>
>
>
> From: Starlink <starlink-bounces@lists.buffe= rbloat.net> On Behalf Of Nathan
> Owens
> Sent: Thursday= , March 3, 2022 12:16 PM
> To: David Lang <david@lang.hm>
> Cc: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> Subject: Re: [Starlink]= recent starlink rrul test result
>
>
>
>= ; Same here, Google Meet / Zoom / Teams / FaceTime are great.
> >
>
> Dave, can you post the commands to run those = flent measurements? I also finally
> recreated that irtt-based scat= terplot, attached.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 3= , 2022 at 7:15 AM David Lang <david@lang.hm
> <mailto:david@l= ang.hm> > wrote:
>
> That said, I've been using star= link for work zoom calls for a while with no
> significant issues (= nothing I can pin on my side vs the other participants)
>
>= ; David Lang
>
> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022, Dave Taht wrote:
>
> > wildly variable bandwidth, adjusted at 15 sec interva= ls, induced
> > latencies of 400ms, really terrible upload throu= ghput relative to
> > down.
> >
> > H/T Da= vid Lang for this data.
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 a= t 9:31 AM Livingood, Jason
> > <Jason_Livingood@comcast.com &= lt;mailto:Jason_Livingood@comcast.com>
> > wrote:
> &= gt;>
> >> When folks experience sub-par video conferencing= over Starlink, it'd be
> great to see working latency stats at tha= t time - such as via the easy test at
> https://www.waveform.com/to= ols/bufferbloat.
> >>
> >> On 2/23/22, 09:38, "= Starlink on behalf of Dave Taht"
> <starlink-bounces@lists.buffe= rbloat.net
> <mailto:starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net> = on behalf of
> dave.taht@gmail.com <mailto:dave.taht@gmail.com&g= t; > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> https://url= defense.com/v3/__https://blog.tomevslin.com/2022/02/starlinks-zoomready-rat= ing-is-going-down.html__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0Tt= EsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj8WTA26WA$
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/= __https:/blog.tomevslin.com/2022/02/starlinks-zoomready-rating-is-going-dow= n.html__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3= _5CxlN2sj8WTA26WA$>
> >>
> >> --
> &= gt;> I tried to build a better future, a few times:
> >> <= br />> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://wayforward.archive.org/?site= =3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fwww.icei.org__;JSUl!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivre= jHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj-yqmwsLA$
> <https://urldefe= nse.com/v3/__https:/wayforward.archive.org/?site=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fwww.icei.o= rg__;JSUl!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3= _5CxlN2sj-yqmwsLA$>
> >>
> >> Dave T=C3=A4ht= CEO, TekLibre, LLC
> >> ____________________________________= ___________
> >> Starlink mailing list
> >> Sta= rlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> <mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat= .net>
> >>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://= lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGd= FrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj_SP7yVhg$
> <https://u= rldefense.com/v3/__https:/lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink__;!!CQl3m= cHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj_SP7yVh= g$>
> >>
> >
> >
> >_____= __________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list<= br />> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net <mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbl= oat.net>
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
= >
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML a= ttachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> <https://lists.buffer= bloat.net/pipermail/starlink/attachments/20220303/9fd1da2c/attachment-0001.= html>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:36:42 -0800 (PST)
> From: David Lang <david@lang.hm>
> To: Nathan Owens <= ;nathan@nathan.io>
> Cc: David Lang <david@lang.hm>, Dave = Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>,
> "starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net= " <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
> Subject: Re: [Starlink] = recent starlink rrul test result
> Message-ID: <87o7734r-5ns1-q7= 34-0qr-q0o06sp72s46@ynat.uz>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset= =3D"utf-8"; Format=3D"flowed"
>
> flent -l 300 --step-size= =3D.05 --socket-stats -H fremont.starlink.taht.net
> --te=3Dupload_= streams=3D1 -t dlangs-dishy tcp_nup
>
> flent -l 300 --ste= p-size=3D.05 --socket-stats -H fremont.starlink.taht.net
> --te=3Dd= ownload_streams=3D1 -t dlangs-dishy tcp_ndown
>
> flent -l= 300 --step-size=3D.05 --socket-stats -H fremont.starlink.taht.net
>= ; --te=3Dupload_streams=3D8 -t dlangs-dishy-8 tcp_nup
>
> = flent -l 300 --step-size=3D.05 --socket-stats -H fremont.starlink.taht.net<= br />> --te=3Ddownload_streams=3D8 -t dlangs-dishy-8 tcp_ndown
>=
> flent -l 300 --step-size=3D.05 --socket-stats -H fremont.starli= nk.taht.net -t
> dlangs-dishy rrul_be
>
>
&g= t; On Thu, 3 Mar 2022, Nathan Owens wrote:
>
> > Same h= ere, Google Meet / Zoom / Teams / FaceTime are great.
> >
&= gt; > Dave, can you post the commands to run those flent measurements? I= also
> > finally recreated that irtt-based scatterplot, attache= d.
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 7:15 AM David Lang = <david@lang.hm> wrote:
> >
> >> That said, I= 've been using starlink for work zoom calls for a while with
> >= > no
> >> significant issues (nothing I can pin on my side= vs the other
> participants)
> >>
> >>= David Lang
> >>
> >> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022, Dave = Taht wrote:
> >>
> >>> wildly variable bandw= idth, adjusted at 15 sec intervals, induced
> >>> latencie= s of 400ms, really terrible upload throughput relative to
> >>= ;> down.
> >>>
> >>> H/T David Lang fo= r this data.
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Mar 3, 2= 022 at 9:31 AM Livingood, Jason
> >>> <Jason_Livingood@= comcast.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>= ; When folks experience sub-par video conferencing over Starlink,
>= it'd be
> >> great to see working latency stats at that time= - such as via the easy
> test
> >> at https://www.wa= veform.com/tools/bufferbloat.
> >>>>
> >>= >> On 2/23/22, 09:38, "Starlink on behalf of Dave Taht" <
>= ; >> starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net on behalf of
> da= ve.taht@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>><= br />> >>>>
> >>
> https://urldefense.= com/v3/__https://blog.tomevslin.com/2022/02/starlinks-zoomready-rating-is-g= oing-down.html__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJ= TyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj8WTA26WA$
> >>>>
> >>>= ;> --
> >>>> I tried to build a better future, a few= times:
> >>>>
> >>
> https://url= defense.com/v3/__https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fwww.i= cei.org__;JSUl!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyN= Ny4u3_5CxlN2sj-yqmwsLA$
> >>>>
> >>>&g= t; Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
> >>>> ___________= ____________________________________
> >>>> Starlink ma= iling list
> >>>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
&= gt; >>>>
> >>
> https://urldefense.com/v3= /__https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGY= O2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj_SP7yVhg$
> &g= t;>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >= >> _______________________________________________
> >>= Starlink mailing list
> >> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
> = >>
> >
>
> ------------------------------=
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2022 12:37:25 -= 0800 (PST)
> From: David Lang <david@lang.hm>
> To: D= avid Lang <david@lang.hm>
> Cc: Nathan Owens <nathan@natha= n.io>, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>,
> "starlink@lists.= bufferbloat.net" <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
> Subject: = Re: [Starlink] recent starlink rrul test result
> Message-ID: <s= p882r34-92q4-4019-8oo3-68r5n53s19n5@ynat.uz>
> Content-Type: tex= t/plain; charset=3D"utf-8"; Format=3D"flowed"
>
> and the = irtt
>
> irtt client --dscp=3D0xfe -i3ms -d20m fremont.sta= rlink.taht.net
>
> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022, David Lang wrote:>
> > flent -l 300 --step-size=3D.05 --socket-stats -H f= remont.starlink.taht.net
> > --te=3Dupload_streams=3D1 -t dlangs= -dishy tcp_nup
> >
> > flent -l 300 --step-size=3D.05= --socket-stats -H fremont.starlink.taht.net
> > --te=3Ddownload= _streams=3D1 -t dlangs-dishy tcp_ndown
> >
> > flent = -l 300 --step-size=3D.05 --socket-stats -H fremont.starlink.taht.net
&= gt; > --te=3Dupload_streams=3D8 -t dlangs-dishy-8 tcp_nup
> >=
> > flent -l 300 --step-size=3D.05 --socket-stats -H fremont.st= arlink.taht.net
> > --te=3Ddownload_streams=3D8 -t dlangs-dishy-= 8 tcp_ndown
> >
> > flent -l 300 --step-size=3D.05 --= socket-stats -H fremont.starlink.taht.net -t
> > dlangs-dishy rr= ul_be
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 3 Mar 2022, Nath= an Owens wrote:
> >
> >> Same here, Google Meet / = Zoom / Teams / FaceTime are great.
> >>
> >> Da= ve, can you post the commands to run those flent measurements? I also
= > >> finally recreated that irtt-based scatterplot, attached.
> >>
> >> On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 7:15 AM David Lang= <david@lang.hm> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Tha= t said, I've been using starlink for work zoom calls for a while
> = with
> >>> no
> >>> significant issues (n= othing I can pin on my side vs the other
> >>> participant= s)
> >>>
> >>> David Lang
> >&= gt;>
> >>> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022, Dave Taht wrote:
&g= t; >>>
> >>>> wildly variable bandwidth, adjus= ted at 15 sec intervals, induced
> >>>> latencies of 40= 0ms, really terrible upload throughput relative to
> >>>&g= t; down.
> >>>>
> >>>> H/T David La= ng for this data.
> >>>>
> >>>> On = Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 9:31 AM Livingood, Jason
> >>>> <= ;Jason_Livingood@comcast.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> When folks experience sub-par video conferencing= over
> Starlink, it'd be
> >>> great to see worki= ng latency stats at that time - such as via the
> easy
> &g= t;>> test
> >>> at https://www.waveform.com/tools/bu= fferbloat.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On= 2/23/22, 09:38, "Starlink on behalf of Dave Taht"
> <
>= >>> starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net on behalf of
>= dave.taht@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>&g= t;>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> = https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://blog.tomevslin.com/2022/02/starlinks-zo= omready-rating-is-going-down.html__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xYrGdFrivre= jHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj8WTA26WA$
> >>>>>= ;
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> I tried = to build a better future, a few times:
> >>>>>
= > >>>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://wayforward.= archive.org/?site=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fwww.icei.org__;JSUl!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGY= O2gkt9xYrGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj-yqmwsLA$
> &g= t;>>>>
> >>>>> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLi= bre, LLC
> >>>>> ___________________________________= ____________
> >>>>> Starlink mailing list
>= >>>>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> >>>= >>
> >>>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https= ://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!TjZjoTCGYO2gkt9xY= rGdFrivrejHIdNjVe0TtEsCuQfDJTyNNy4u3_5CxlN2sj_SP7yVhg$
> >>&g= t;>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> = >>>> _______________________________________________
> = >>> Starlink mailing list
> >>> Starlink@lists.bu= fferbloat.net
> >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo= /starlink
> >>>
> >
>
> ------= ------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Th= u, 3 Mar 2022 22:01:36 +0000
> From: Larry Press <lpress@csudh.e= du>
> To: Mike Puchol <mike@starlink.sx>, Dave Taht <da= ve.taht@gmail.com>,
> David Lang <david@lang.hm>
>= Cc: "starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net" <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>= ;
> Subject: Re: [Starlink] spacex & ukraine
> Message-= ID:
> <BYAPR03MB386303F48A1F1EBBF8AB3B3DC2049@BYAPR03MB3863.namp= rd03.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; ch= arset=3D"windows-1252"
>
> > The balance, as David ment= ions, is on the value of the target vs. the effort
> required to st= rike.
>
> The value of allowing government and resistance = leaders and journalists to
> communicate with each other and the ou= tside world seems quite high, making the
> terminals attractive tar= gets for the Russians.
>
> The cost of locating and striki= ng a target also seems high -- Ukraine is large and
> the terminals= are portable. SpaceX is testing roaming without re-registration in
&g= t; California/Nevada
> (https://circleid.com/posts/20220225-spacex-= is-testing-starlink-roaming). If
> SpaceX is listening -- consider = enabling roaming in by the users in Ukraine.
>
> Larry
>
> ________________________________
> From: Starlink= <starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net> on behalf of Mike
>= Puchol <mike@starlink.sx>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 2, 2022 1= :06 AM
> To: Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>; David Lang <= david@lang.hm>
> Cc: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net <starlink= @lists.bufferbloat.net>
> Subject: Re: [Starlink] spacex & u= kraine
>
> Thank you Dave, the honor is mine to share a ma= iling list with so many people who
> know way more than I do, about= any subject I could point my finger at, so I really
> appreciate i= t.
>
> On the subject at hand, ELINT/SIGINT and traffic an= alysis has evolved massively
> over the years. In the mid-90s, the = Chechen president was killed by Russia with a
> missile strike, bas= ed on his satcom phone signals, which included decoding the
> speec= h and matching to ensure they were hitting the right target.
>
> The balance, as David mentions, is on the value of the target vs. th= e effort
> required to strike. It is relatively easy to monitor cel= lular networks, decrypt
> the traffic, and triangulate to almost au= tomatically target & strike. The same
> happens with VSAT, whic= h operates against a fixed satellite, so an aircraft high
> enough = will be in the path between a large portion of the ground and the
>= satellite.
>
> With Starlink, the challenge is two-fold. = You must be able to detect & locate the
> 4.5=C2=BA wide uplink= beam from a terminal, which constantly moves - this can be
> done = by measuring just the RF levels and using an ESA to find the source. You mu= st
> also ensure that the user of the terminal is a target valuable= enough to justify a
> strike, which would be a lot harder, as you = need to keep a good enough SNR to
> demodulate, then you=E2=80=99d = need to decrypt. Doing this in real time on an
> airborne platform = is quite a challenge.
>
> Bottom line: unless Russia goes = all-out against anyone using any form of radio
> comms (phones, VSA= T, satcom, Starlink, etc.) and they just blindly strike any
> sourc= e of RF, a Starlink user has a good chance to avoid being targeted by just<= br />> using the terminal. Different case is if terminals get used by th= e military, and
> Russia then assumes Starlink =3D military target.= We=E2=80=99re far from any clear
> scenario, so we need to wait &a= mp; see.
>
> A couple of weeks ago I sent a Ku band LNB to= Oleg, tuned to the Starlink uplink
> band (12.75 - 14.5 GHz), but = it arrived a couple of days before the invasion
> began, so he didn= =E2=80=99t get a chance to do any analysis on the TX side of the
> = terminal.
>
> Best,
>
> Mike
> On= Mar 1, 2022, 22:15 +0300, David Lang <david@lang.hm>, wrote:
&g= t; a couple thoughts on anti-radiation missiles being fired at starlink dis= hes
>
> 1. the dishes are fairly low power (100w or less) = and rather directional, so
> they aren't great targets.
> <= br />> 2. dishes cost FAR less than the missiles that would be fired at = them, and are
> being produced at a much higher rate (although ther= e are probably more missles
> in the Russian inventory than spare d= ishes in SpaceX inventory)
>
> direction finding teams wit= h boots on the ground could be more of a threat, but
> the higher f= requency signals are blocked fairly easily (which is why the dishes
&g= t; need a clear view of the sky). It takes a fair amount of training to be = good at
> direction finding on weak and intermittent signals.
= >
> David Lang
>
> On Tue, 1 Mar 2022, Dave Ta= ht wrote:
>
> Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2022 13:55:47 -0500
&g= t; From: Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>
> To: starlink@lists= .bufferbloat.net
> Subject: [Starlink] spacex & ukraine
&g= t;
> It is an ongoing honor to have mike puchol sharing his insigh= ts with
> us, also, on this list.
>
> https://spac= enews.com/spacex-heeds-ukraines-starlink-sos/<https://urldefense.com/v3/= __https://spacenews.com/spacex-heeds-ukraines-starlink-sos/__;!!P7nkOOY!uT2= pzIfUcFbj7Vv0Bb9RBU2KwIN5DrfrZHS-tHLcaxzdteVwgm5SzgXoiFK1cNklRuLosonTTiDHWk= 8$>
>
> --
> I tried to build a better future, = a few times:
> https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2= Fwww.icei.org<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://wayforward.archive.org= /?site=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fwww.icei.org__;JSUl!!P7nkOOY!uT2pzIfUcFbj7Vv0Bb9RBU2= KwIN5DrfrZHS-tHLcaxzdteVwgm5SzgXoiFK1cNklRuLosonTw6dgoHU$>
> > Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
> _______________________= ________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink= @lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/sta= rlink<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo= /starlink__;!!P7nkOOY!uT2pzIfUcFbj7Vv0Bb9RBU2KwIN5DrfrZHS-tHLcaxzdteVwgm5Sz= gXoiFK1cNklRuLosonTN75eAXM$>
> _________________________________= ______________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.buf= ferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink<h= ttps://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink_= _;!!P7nkOOY!uT2pzIfUcFbj7Vv0Bb9RBU2KwIN5DrfrZHS-tHLcaxzdteVwgm5SzgXoiFK1cNk= lRuLosonTN75eAXM$>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> <http= s://lists.bufferbloat.net/pipermail/starlink/attachments/20220303/57dc7be8/= attachment.html>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _____________= __________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
>= ; Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/li= stinfo/starlink
>
>
> ---------------------------= ---
>
> End of Starlink Digest, Vol 12, Issue 6
> = ***************************************
>

=0A
 ------=_20220303184722000000_47185--