From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-yb1-xb2e.google.com (mail-yb1-xb2e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A0CD13B29D for ; Tue, 7 May 2024 06:50:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-yb1-xb2e.google.com with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-de45385a1b4so2797307276.3 for ; Tue, 07 May 2024 03:50:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1715079043; x=1715683843; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=references:to:cc:in-reply-to:date:subject:mime-version:message-id :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=5wpQMy0zDV3mdoz96o7OmbGqy84gOQL0OQpq27PYOfo=; b=eVH+KDCRMVcaPvzWpcI+KhqK2kGNxXIUn51tAg5PlD6wF5BkPaRHmfRonpYcTEGTI/ CbNAcckKw4m2hQIaB4POaJIAfXbAHf1DLAtwI0N16+UC1l7VdPy9vgPhm/FxarS9LJmG D3S3GYbrwhKd34sS2aujZCjFxkmRUP32X61tZbNG2MwzrEEemnuVzp42r7x7y6/S1i1+ /jsTz9ywcY/HsioJ2EV5O+viMfzfQ1s09YEGFIrPkB4sN/Rb5ZfMUqZNOG2fRul35uYd 4cDnFeJhYWx6hD2HnqNtgnHjgwl/n1AC6TKv+NBALm/Y4mEWXU7lmYl5zRmyhwlgMKrm qxUQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1715079043; x=1715683843; h=references:to:cc:in-reply-to:date:subject:mime-version:message-id :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=5wpQMy0zDV3mdoz96o7OmbGqy84gOQL0OQpq27PYOfo=; b=AFyEBUCMZTU0v4zoO2r2YYKOi+j/3tsfQn2BcjNAGEdxbHNpDOLxRWhE5WwrROLH3J h+qqLm0GTQtmMPNaIYiyg04YbitNcOFzWE74euIUVdYg+ycfNOt4GayFAlLVr6E2YPGD CiDWvQC2PEMTU6lKoj0FT68mmvxp/YJuAbFZPkxYqG0aaF74WtJgIXl6fRu93jcugMp9 I1ahasBPiz4hUVqd4I65qoSce7RK6uy3m8xFFa7aqi5Ej/tFEFsygKlvY28hR5atx9lo 6Y8vgAGgQj7C2T+aPC2AGenU9UJPyjo3cyLLPl9YudZOO2SLTvp4D/n3q+g1nMJ4GoAG oYYA== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCXcLed41eqn1PwWxP27Nm8hvkMlaWqw+1WpUSRzUx8d+cG+jS7KG5Vv6SO+5UD6iSOGm4NmKHC60jS+3ety0zT9rWFmLYJpC8NXuZLPmW8= X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwU/r4gbHQuc5x4LkxDgZrOnzYguImCEER4GGQEefqNNgIb1X3F IMkB8CVqp6ov54/S6NPLeNkOOJbxsHM8kweZj9O6Z7Dgno7634Js X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGjhbKmErpYzi90XcjshW1+NZ5szieaDFXa6VOmjws21CYI8g7SWJSQ6kta3bgI9iPanEgq7A== X-Received: by 2002:a25:a306:0:b0:de5:52ef:c94d with SMTP id d6-20020a25a306000000b00de552efc94dmr11657695ybi.0.1715079042771; Tue, 07 May 2024 03:50:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([198.55.239.44]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ga15-20020a05622a590f00b00439d68d5eb0sm3429020qtb.78.2024.05.07.03.50.42 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 07 May 2024 03:50:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Rich Brown Message-Id: <175CC5C3-F70A-49E8-A84D-87E24C04EABD@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_54226F0D-D9BA-4171-85B4-CEAF5FE97812" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.120.41.1.8\)) Date: Tue, 7 May 2024 06:50:41 -0400 In-Reply-To: <961EDB45-E91D-4D1D-B81B-9D032E8CFC6B@ieee.org> Cc: Sebastian Moeller , Colin_Higbie , Dave Taht via Starlink To: Eugene Y Chang References: <438B1BC4-D465-497A-B6BA-700E1D411036@ieee.org> <79C02ABB-B2A6-4B4D-98F4-6540D3F96EBB@ieee.org> <7E918B58-382A-4793-A144-13A7075CA56C@connectivitycap.com> <13rq2389-9012-p95n-s494-q3pp070s497n@ynat.uz> <6qop2p3o-351p-788q-q1q2-86sosnq3rn21@ynat.uz> <3FF32F52-4A93-496B-85FF-00020FA4A48B@gmx.de> <08F6942E-CC08-4956-B92E-CBEC091D86E4@ieee.org> <961EDB45-E91D-4D1D-B81B-9D032E8CFC6B@ieee.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.120.41.1.8) Subject: Re: [Starlink] The "reasons" that bufferbloat isn't a problem X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 May 2024 10:50:43 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_54226F0D-D9BA-4171-85B4-CEAF5FE97812 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Gene, > On May 6, 2024, at 8:38 PM, Eugene Y Chang = wrote: >=20 > It seems like you signed off on this challenge. Don=E2=80=99t do that. = Help give me the tools to push this to the next level. Not at all - I'm definitely signed up for this. But I collected all = these points so we can be clear-eyed about the objections that people = cite.=20 Bufferbloat definitely exists. And there are straightforward technical = solutions. And as you say, our challenge is to find a way to build the = case for broad adoption of these techniques.=20 Best regards, Rich= --Apple-Mail=_54226F0D-D9BA-4171-85B4-CEAF5FE97812 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Hi Gene,
On May = 6, 2024, at 8:38 PM, Eugene Y Chang <eugene.chang@ieee.org> wrote:

It seems like you signed off on this challenge. Don=E2=80=99t do = that. Help give me the tools to push this to the next = level.

Not at all = - I'm definitely signed up for this. But I collected all these points so = we can be clear-eyed about the objections that people = cite. 

Bufferbloat definitely exists. And there are straightforward = technical solutions. And as you say, our challenge is to find a way to = build the case for broad adoption of these techniques. 

Best regards,

Rich
= --Apple-Mail=_54226F0D-D9BA-4171-85B4-CEAF5FE97812--