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charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Starlink] APNIC56 last week X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 10:53:15 -0000 On 23/09/2023 4:22 pm, Noel Butler via Starlink wrote: > IPv6 is only 4% of traffic that hits my Mail Servers, it's less than=20 > 1% on my Web servers. > Just like TCP, it wont be going anywhere, not quietly, and if it were=20 > to, likely be long after I'm gone, QUIC seems an interesting project,=20 > and I guess only the decades ahead of us will tell of it becomes a=20 > raging success. Now what that tells me is that you and those that use your mail / web=20 servers are within networks that are either in networks that are old and=20 have legacy IPv4 allocations, or that are new, desparate, and rich. And=20 Geoff, if you asked him, would tell you that this is perfectly fine by=20 him - as long as you're happy with it. In fact, I can recall a=20 presentation of his not too long ago (APNIC54, AINTEC22?) where he said=20 pretty much exactly that he didn't foresee a rapid demise of IPv4. But if you look at the Internet as a whole - and Geoff does, in a very=20 ingenious way, I might add - then we notice that the percentage of IPv6=20 out there has been growing steadily. IPv6 is now what about half of=20 Internet users use. Maybe not the folk that visit your services, but=20 Internet users nonetheless. So you're in the process of being=20 outnumbered. But that's perhaps of academic interest only, for now, at=20 least. What's a bit more pertinent in some respects is a point that Vint=20 brought up, and this is that if you want a new IPv4 address these days,=20 you will generally need to buy it from someone who has an allocation. Or=20 lease it - which is a little controversial, but not a debate I'm wanting=20 to enter here. Let's stay with the buying price tag for a moment. I came home from APNIC54 last year with the insight that my employer's=20 /16 IPv4 allocation was worth around US$3.5 million. Since we've had the=20 /16 for ages, I started wondering whether this was even on our asset=20 list. I was pretty sure that it ought to be. Turns out it wasn't - when=20 every $100 monitor in our place is. So I started asking questions and am=20 told that there was a hastily arranged meeting between IT and Finance. The upshot is that we now have a $3.5m asset on our books that may=20 appreciate or depreciate, and people who are responsible for managing=20 it. In fact, I dug a bit further and found a total of around NZ$100m=20 worth of IPv4 addresses in NZ's public sector, including a /16 held by a=20 government department that wasn't part of any AS. NZ's auditor general's=20 office told me that they expected public sector agencies to list IPv4=20 holdings on their balance sheets. Why is this important? Because otherwise, there is nothing that stops an=20 individual with access to your RIR account from transferring your IPv4=20 holdings to whichever party they so desire. If the addresses are not on=20 your asset list, then there's nothing that documents that you own the=20 value that is inherent in them and thus nothing to sue anyone for. One=20 imagines this as the ultimate stunt that a disgruntled sysadmin might=20 pull off before they leave your employ. But let's get back to that newly-found asset that we now have to manage.=20 Your next CGNAT now becomes an investment in making that newly-found=20 asset a little less tradable. A bit like putting a shiny new building=20 right onto the only access way to your back sections you've just been=20 told you can actually develop. Of course, this only applies to folk who sit on larger address blocks -=20 for a /24, it won't make much of a difference on the balance sheet. --=20 **************************************************************** Dr. Ulrich Speidel School of Computer Science Room 303S.594 (City Campus) The University of Auckland u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/ ****************************************************************