From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail1.bemta32.messagelabs.com (mail1.bemta32.messagelabs.com [195.245.230.66]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5BF033B29D for ; Sun, 16 Oct 2022 15:03:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrIIsWRWlGSWpSXmKPExsXSsnPhZt0ZoT7 JBlt6hS3a+m6xWiy5aGuxdvEWVgdmjw8f4zx+PDvB7rH94hmmAOYo1sy8pPyKBNaMo3P6GQv6 uCoeLX/C1MB4kaOLkYtDSGAno8TBhx+ZIJzljBJ7lzZDOScZJf49WwPlrGaUePflJiuE088os fT0QaAMJweLgKrEpLXPGUFsNgEDiYk//7F1MXJwiAioSyxrlgcJMwv4SSy++50JJCws4C3Rt6 EEJMwrYCbRd+QJWKeQwFkWid2dTiAlvAKCEn93CEN0aknc+PcSrJNZQFpi+T8OkDCngJXEm4X P2CYwCsxCaJiFpGEWQsMCRuZVjGbFqUVlqUW6hiZ6SUWZ6RkluYmZOXqJVbqJeqmluuWpxSW6 hnqJ5cV6qcXFesWVuck5KXp5qSWbGIGhnVLMtmoH469lf/QOMUpyMCmJ8mZs8UwW4kvKT6nMS CzOiC8qzUktPsQow8GhJME7JdgnWUiwKDU9tSItMwcYZzBpCQ4eJRHeg65Aad7igsTc4sx0iN QpRl2Ozv1dB5iFWPLy81KlxCFmCIAUZZTmwY2AxfwlRlkpYV5GBgYGIZ6C1KLczBJU+VeM4hy MSsK8j0Cm8GTmlcBtegV0BBPQERn7vUCOKElESEk1MFVy99cFcpdNMo97Kr9MdImm5Mps7oJ3 U3Sv/551hj/nvWnXBI446WVSTKKNq1YKSh1UdZ/UWXNxBtuxY5nf7r9sLm17VmMoNjeS75tj0 N+00tSddf8Czxt3y5Xelpvo/iBA/+Eh6eOh6ZyazM+bz1/o9Xqrw3QhP/1B98bT5zMmuXTO/z vZ/WWV7mm/89d3R3BrccZPtfDW0XylLiI+M8fD5ZRrUebMBdFG1jn+T+0Phhyvcsxwen3wSef JPgmpa5J/tq3+/nTHDTMV/1R9lVXpAov+y2snX8v04Gi5FMcT+LYsJU9CcYtAmXdWe8z8yV6z FPfVP0vM7wg/YzvtaMQJwUnW+hzvX532MotWYinOSDTUYi4qTgQANYMnv3QDAAA= X-Env-Sender: brandon@rd.bbc.co.uk X-Msg-Ref: server-22.tower-561.messagelabs.com!1665947032!236896!1 X-Originating-IP: [132.185.161.179] X-SYMC-ESS-Client-Auth: outbound-route-from=pass X-StarScan-Received: X-StarScan-Version: 9.87.3; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 23546 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2022 19:03:52 -0000 Received: from mailout0.telhc.bbc.co.uk (HELO mailout0.telhc.bbc.co.uk) (132.185.161.179) by server-22.tower-561.messagelabs.com with ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 encrypted SMTP; 16 Oct 2022 19:03:52 -0000 Received: from gateb.lh.bbc.co.uk (gateb.kw.bbc.co.uk [132.185.132.11]) by mailout0.telhc.bbc.co.uk (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 29GJ3pHq003222; Sun, 16 Oct 2022 20:03:51 +0100 (BST) Received: from mailhub1.rd.bbc.co.uk ([172.29.120.129]) by gateb.lh.bbc.co.uk (8.15.1+Sun/8.13.6) with ESMTP id 29GJ3peM002057; Sun, 16 Oct 2022 20:03:51 +0100 (BST) Received: from sunf68.rd.bbc.co.uk ([172.29.120.68]:63561) by mailhub1.rd.bbc.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ok8vP-0001ZV-Jb; Sun, 16 Oct 2022 20:03:51 +0100 Received: from sunf68.rd.bbc.co.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sunf68.rd.bbc.co.uk (8.13.8+Sun/8.12.2) with ESMTP id 29GJ3p3b001002; Sun, 16 Oct 2022 20:03:51 +0100 (BST) Received: (from brandon@localhost) by sunf68.rd.bbc.co.uk (8.13.8+Sun/8.12.2/Submit) id 29GJ3o1D001001; Sun, 16 Oct 2022 20:03:50 +0100 (BST) Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2022 20:03:50 +0100 From: Brandon Butterworth To: Sebastian Moeller Cc: David Lang , Starlink list Message-ID: <20221016190349.GA945@sunf68.rd.bbc.co.uk> References: <398208s8-6080-r8q7-s6rs-q9np11428n3o@ynat.uz> <12bfd01d8e001$03cf0e40$0b6d2ac0$@evslin.com> <1ro0q1n3-s460-9r2r-p7rn-526q1qq9qp27@ynat.uz> <7AFAA1E1-B583-4A42-B188-6D80F9C2DDD5@gmx.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7AFAA1E1-B583-4A42-B188-6D80F9C2DDD5@gmx.de> Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink no longer available to the Ukrainian army? X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2022 19:03:54 -0000 On Sun Oct 16, 2022 at 08:44:12PM +0200, Sebastian Moeller via Starlink wrote: > > and it's worth remembering that it's not just being used for military C&C, it's being used for (almost) all Internet access through the country, normal telcom, Hospitals, community access, etc. > > Do we know this for sure? As far as I know (so not very much, one of my > colleagues in the early 2000s was Ukranian and told me about their figer > optics telephony system) Ukraine might have some fiber infrastructure > that should make at least the west not fully reliant on Starlkink. They have loads of fibre like most countries, there were many reports of them repairing it after was damage, a few sumarried - https://www.vice.com/en/article/qjbapv/diy-volunteers-are-repairing-ukraines-destroyed-internet-infrastructure https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2022/03/22/while-russians-bombs-fall-around-them-ukraines-engineers-battle-to-keep-the-internet-running/ loads more on twitter. For c&c and the front line they can't depend on that especially as they regain areas where Russia has has time to infiltrate/redeploy the existing infrastructure, and which may now be the target of their own attack. One of Russias weaknesses was depending on the local infra for their own operations. brandon